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so apparently Epic decided to expand the “muh no 30% cut” frontier :thinking:

:rofl: :joy:

Epic Games vs Apple

And it continues

Epic Games vs Apple

this started as something pretty funny, but it seems this is indeed escalating into something which might reach insane proportions. If neither backs down and they don’t find a compromise, this might probably hugely affect not only thousands of games, programs, and apps but also lead to the creation of new laws (or at least legal precedents) and their effects related to competition, free market access, and monopoly for decades to come.

Epic claiming it will be harmed is not rly relevant, i feel, lol, but this would indeed have huge impacts for whoever uses their products (both producers and consumers) and especially their engine on Apple platforms.

Epic Games vs Apple

There is no place for a compromise, in fact as laid out in the lawsuit itself Epic says they and other big actors do get offered deals with better revenue splits but that they don’t want to take those. They keep claiming it’s all about breaking up “the monopolies” which again only reflects that Epic don’t know what they’re talking about. Or they do know they’re wrong they just think you won’t realize as was the case when they started calling steam a monopoly and then went ahead and monopolized games away from steam.

IF this lawsuit is actually found in favour of Epic then the results will be catastrophic for sure. But they really don’t have a very well supported argument, the laws they reference don’t actually support their claims and the whole thing should be thrown out in a preliminary hearing or something.

If you want to hear more details on this I would recommend Hoeg Law going through it That’s about an hour analyzing the first apple lawsuit. He has a bit over 3h in total talking about this situation as it developed over this week, if you’re really interested.

Epic Games vs Apple

it’s funny the sht they claim, monopoly etc - when that’s what they themselves are after, at least pc games retail wise
"unfair business practice" - gee, you mean like making games exclusive on an established open platform for a year?
i know it’s not a 1:1, and their epic store is a bit unrelated to this situation, but it is just slightly funny the minor parallels that can be drawn if one tried a little word twisting

Epic Games vs Apple

I’m not that interested :joy: nor do i have the time for that anyways. I’ll just see whatever happens and read the bullet points :joy:

Edit: If it is as you say though, and Epic has no ground to stand on, then wtf are Epic smoking :joy: Seems like a pretty naive and dumb move to make (and then wtf did they expect would happen :thinking:), and then i fully understand Apple just respond like that, and i imagine Epic will just have to go back on their decisions and swallow their pride cuz whatever happens, it can’t go the way it is going now for them, I’d imagine.

Epic Games vs Apple

yeah, i do find their rhetoric a bit weird given they do that, and they very well know gamers hate that

Epic Games vs Apple

Amusing conspiracy theory time!
Epic is acting on behalf of Tencent whom the US have recently started acting against with 2 specific actions limiting other companies to trade with some of their massive mobile platforms. The whole thing is only aimed at tying up the two primary American cellphone companies and providers of cellphone applications in a legal and public opinions battle trying to paint both market leaders as bad actors while portraying themselves as champions of the people as they launch their own line of cellphones(probably huwaei or xiaomi) and/or a mobile OS. They don’t need neither Apple or google to fall or be broken up, it’s all a publicity stunt to get a foot into the door and they’re hoping to rouse their largely under age fan base to jump aboard once they launch their own thing.

Or maybe Tim Sweeney just have too much money and too few marbles left and think that he can do whatever he wants by just throwing enough cash around.

Epic Games vs Apple

Funny. Epic again is pretending to be a ‘good guy’. Same thing happened few years ago with steam so yeah. Time to think of some new and original ways to make headlines i guess.

Few things in the world are more funny than multi-billion $ corporations fighting each other for mere millions…

Epic Games vs Apple

Well this thing has gotten even more dumb now. Apple responded and told Epic that they’ve been banned from the appstore for a list of reasons specified in the contracts and license agreements entered into. Giving Epic a generous 14 days to remedy a list of issues to avoid being terminated. The whole IAP thing being the first obvious one but they also obfuscated and lied to apple about what the update they wanted to push did and contained so that’s a big breach of trust and contract. Apple decided that not only do they not want fortnite anymore, they don’t want to work with Epic anymore. Canceling their license and access to Apple devtools and support entirely. This will pretty much mean the unreal engine wont be supported on iOS or any other Apple system for that matter. Well Epic COULD still try very hard to maintain compatibility without any of the dev tools or early access to new OS versions or documentation, the engine would always be a step behind everything else though and it’d require a lot of software engineering skills on their part. Possible, but expensive. Good luck epic.

Well here comes the stupidity, Epic’s response. They’ve gone and tried to sue for an injunction against Apple demanding that the court forces Apple to not only restore Epic’s access to the appstore with fortnite’s update as is, force Apple to continue licensing them dev tools, provide support and all other benefits they’ve enjoyed through this contract and relationship they’ve decided to break. Because “we’re certain we’ll win this anyway and if we get punished by Apple like this it’ll cause us ‘irreparable harm’”. Of course there’s a LOT of flowery BS going on where they try to paint Apple as some sort of abuser here and talking at length about how access to cellphones, no iPhones in particular, is an “Essential Facility” and that’s why they have to allow Fortnite and in extension pretty much any other software on their system. Also of course this means that anyone should be able to own an iPhone and we need to institute government programs to help those who can’t afford an iPhone or iPad to do so. Not just any cellphone, which kind of exists already, their argument fails if they don’t mean iPhones in particular. It still fails because it’s stupid though.

They even went and trawled facebook posts for people expressing annoyance over not having fortnite on their phone anymore and included screenshots of those in a legal document, as if that proved anything. Epic is really taking this to a twitter feud level of discourse.

The short of it is pretty much that Epic want the court to deny Apple the rights they have to decide who they do business with, who they enter into contracts with.

Epic Games vs Apple

there are precedents for that though. Governments do sometimes step in when it comes to preventing monopolies etc. or indeed providing necessary and essential access or preventing exclusion for people from certain products in certain cases (even though technically by doing so they also deny them the right to do business with whom they please or how they please or sell their company to whom they please, which is also a right you normally have, but then they do so to protect the general public, and in some cases also to prevent other companies from going bankrupt)

im not saying this would be one potential such case, just that it does happen

a practical example of that we all know is ofc what happened with Windows Microsoft back in the day, and i’ve also come across an example recently in my job, where they spoke of how a certain country might force the phone companies who have established internet networks (the physical lines, fiber especially) to keep providing internet access for the phone companies who dont have their own networks because otherwise those will go bankrupt because no one will use them (those other companies not having the means to now go and develop those networks)

again, just examples, not saying this here is the same at all; i rly dont have the time to delve into it more than what i read here, and i doubt i’d be able to rly make a proper judgment in all that legal shit regardless

but this year keeps getting crazier it seems

Epic Games vs Apple

That’s really not what’s going on though. They are trying to make it sound like it is. But they are arguing that iPhones in particular AND Fortnite itself is so important to daily life for the population at large that it would cause societal harm if the court did not stop apple from dehosting Fortnite on iOS.

Anti-trust courts can indeed put on hold actions taken by companies to give the court time to investigate what the full ramifications would be. Injunctions however are a different beast, they are a tool the court can use to stop something or stop someone from doing something without trial because allowing that to happen would cause “irreparable harm”. That term does not mean “lose a lot of money” in fact money is largely not considered relevant for something like this.

Epic Games vs Apple




the way they are trying to take this to the “court of public opinion” with “muh Apple bad/Epic GoodGuy” really makes me hope they lose this lawsuit - big.
It’s ridiculous disgusting behavior to attempt and deliberately rile up your fan- and playerbase over something like this, and that “you” caused yourself, and on purpose
Hell i don’t just hope they lose, i hope apple/google counter sues or gets sanctions on Epic’s ass and that Epic has to limp home in a bend-over walk of shame with money and future prospects lost; well deserved

Epic Games vs Apple

With this Epic/Apple lawsuit talk I think it would be a good idea to have a dedicated topic to discuss further on this topic.
Before that, I just like to add that for me, as long as it doesn’t do any major harm onto the consumers at the end of the day on either side of the coin, I couldn’t care less about this lawsuit. I predict that it wouldn’t really go anywhere and if it does, Epic would lose, Apple stocks go up even more than they already have, and everyone will laugh at Epic till the cows come home.
At least that is how I feel is the most realistic and maybe reasonable conclusion from the lawsuit. OK, the laughing at Epic part is an exaggeration but the rest seems to me the most realistic given their size + Epic’s ownership with Tencent, a company owned by and is connected to one of the most hated countries, will only make things worse on their side so in essence they do have a disadvantage.

Epic Games vs Apple

Second that thought. Two big boys are arguing in their sandbox. We get it. On to the next crazy stories ^^ Like this one:

Epic Games vs Apple

Is that supposed to be against me, because I am legit confused rn?


:joy: no, Epic and Apple :joy:

they were actually agreeing with you


alright so this is not exactly a news article, nor am i sure of its exact validity, but i ran across it just now and it did make me think; is that the fault of the leadership or a sign of the people’s unwillingness/selfishness because “muh freedom” - and eu citizens are just better behaved/more considerate or docile/“drones” ? :thinking:

Trump's failure to protect American lives:

Covid-19 deaths yesterday
UK: 6
Canada: 5
Spain: 16
France: 12
Japan: 16
Germany: 10
United States: 1,090

Combined population of UK, Canada, Spain, France, Japan, Germany: 426 million

Population of United States: 328 million

— Robert Reich (@RBReich) August 21, 2020

either way, you’re definitely winning Mr Trump, big numbers, huge, no one has numbers like you :+1: :trophy: - 'merica fck yeah ! :us: