that is like the No Man’s Sky apologists, it doesn’t fly.
“they can patch it”, - that doesn’t matter, you don’t release such a borked/falsely advertised piece of mess, regardless of your pedigree, in fact you could say it makes this worse
what matters is the product, at the point of when/where you sell it
video games is, for some reason, the only business where this is accepted, and legal, which is mindnumbingly baffling
that is like the No Man’s Sky apologists, it doesn’t fly.
That’s different. NMS promised entirely different content, and didn’t deliver on it. On top of that, they also had a sea of bugs and issues. So it wasn’t even anything like the game they had promised, it was an actual lie.
As I talked about at some length in my previous post, so did CDPR, maybe they didn’t lie to you personally and YOU actually got the game they advertised. But that doesn’t absolve them of all the lies they did still tell and all the shady shit they pulled in order to get the game onto last gen consoles.
Dishonesty and deceit is what I’m choosing to not support them for, doesn’t matter that it wasn’t against me personally. Because next time it might be.
CDPR, deliberately, falsely, mislead people buying the game on last gen consoles, they straight up apologized for that - that’s every bit as bad as Hello games misleading NMS features
they, PR/management, claimed the game was launch ready, after delays, despite the dev team disagreeing big - they were well aware of what state their product was in at the point they decided/were fine with still selling it to the public anyway, knowing the patch fest it would go in to
when you have Sony, of all things, not just pulling your product, but, voluntarily, offering full refunds, you’ve seriously messed up
^which was the thing that even made me question how the frick the game ever got through certification to begin with
Ultimately i feel that this is same trap every successful game developer and/or publishers falls victim to. You start small and humble , manage to build your reputation and name by releasing quality products in time attracting investors and finally losing control of your business to various agreements,deadlines or such.
I’m no economist so i dont know how viable and long term can mid range company like CDRP ( before their massive success with Witcher ) sustain itself . Maybe they can and management just gets greedy 9 times out of 10 and sells out , or maybe it is actually impossible and you either dial back down to small indie crap or go big and sell your soul to the devil.
As is case in all of stories like this one i doubt that actual developers wanted to release their game in state like that. I also doubt that good part of management wanted to do that as well but once you start to lose your business to investors and their deadlines there’s probably no real way back .
Another beloved developer who succumbed to temptations of unlimited funds. But it has it’s price as anything in this life.
All i hope for is that core of CDRP management still believes in making quality video games and they can find a way to loosen those vines they entangled themselves in.
That is my take on this at least.
Last bastion of quality game making in this bleak industry , for me at least , remains Larian Studios. They are making excellent games with very decent production values and at least so far doesnt seem to be on their way to selling out. So here is one for hoping that they will keep their integrity and continue on making amazing RPGs for years to come.
the game, for me, on my PC, has way less bugs (especially intrusive ones that break your enjoyment) than for example Generation Zero, and the gameplay is way more fluid than GTA V back when that released. (imo the gameplay was, and still is, the big flaw of GTA V [just running around and maneuvering obstacles is quite clumsy in that game])
There is no excuse whatsoever for what happened with the console release. I don’t even understand how it is possible that that happened. It’s simply mindboggling.
As for the PC release, yes, games shouldn’t release with this amount of bugs, even if they are then later patched, but it is a sad reality that most games nowadays do launch like this. In that aspect, this game certainly isn’t worse than many of today’s games.
That doesn’t change the fact that it shouldn’t be the case though.
They apologized for not showing enough of the old consoles and for concentrating on other consoles and PC, yes, but they didn’t apologize for purposely hiding information or lying to people, because that wasn’t what they did. And it is a bit dishonest for people to paint it as if they had apologized for it in their letter when they absolutely didn’t. There’s a difference between dishonesty and deceit, and what they did. The issues on last gen consoles is simply because they concentrated more on the late gen consoles and PC. And no, that does not make it better, but it is an important piece of context to be had.
I don’t think it is fair to paint it as if their intention was to lie to us and to trick us into buying the game. It wasn’t. It was all just ignorance and negligence, not intention to harm its customers to make a quick $. And no, of course that doesn’t absolve them of releasing a bug riddled game, but it is important to distinguish, especially if you are trying to understand the position of a buyer who did not refund etc.
If only their share holders etc did not keep pushing a quick time frame on them. The game at minimum needed another 2-3 months, but preferably about half of a year to a year more.
we would like to start by apologizing to you for not showing the game on base last-gen consoles before it premiered and, in consequence, not allowing you to make a more informed decision about your purchase.
They intentionally hid the state of the game on last gen consoles not only to the customers but to Sony and Microsoft as well. They directly lied to everyone. Whether they should have spent more time making it run acceptably or not is besides the point, most likely they shouldn’t have bothered to pretend it ran on those consoles at all.
Further more they issued press restrictions that demanded that they only used provided footage. That’s an active attempt at hiding the truth.
I would very much like to learn that they made their best efforts and had nothing but good intentions but bad luck or plain incompetence prevented them from achieving what they desired. That’s not what happened, they made a concentrated effort to conceal the state of the game from everyone and that matters.
Though I think it’s also rather amusing that they went right to “Please do request refunds” and Sony a far scummier company got real mad about it. CDPR at least lives in a culture where offering refunds to products that does not fill it’s purpose is a matter of course, sony does not. Sony does not care that your shit doesn’t work, if you’ve given sony your money you wont get it back.
@Rhyagelle I’d really like it if you took a look at the Sid alpha video I linked earlier, I’d love it if you could point out where his information is wrong. Please prove to me that I can in good conscience buy this game.
Except, it wasn’t intentional. You are confusing their negligence to work on the consoles and their admittance of that as them admitting they tried to lie to you. They didn’t. That’s where the last of it really comes into the context;
First of all, we would like to start by apologizing to you for not showing the game on base last-gen consoles before it premiered and, in consequence, not allowing you to make a more informed decision about your purchase. We should have paid more attention to making it play better on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.
It isn’t a discussion of if it happened, it did. It is whether or not they intentionally withheld this information to deceive you. That wasn’t the case. They were just negligent and stupid enough not to work more on last gen consoles.
And whether or not you can or should buy it is an entirely different discussion. I was just pointing out that the issues with Cyberpunk 2077 were not intentional on the effort of scamming customers out of their money or to lie to them. It was just a lack of trying/negligence. If bugs bother someone, then I would never recommend someone like that to buy it or not to return it had they already bought it. I myself do not mind them in this context, but I certainly won’t gripe if others do.
no, just no, and please don’t be that naive/“fanboi’ish” to try do that there…
there is no way, absolutely no way it wasn’t intentional, they knew how it ran/worked, to the point of restricting PR, reviews and review copies of it
that is not “negligent” or an accident, that is deliberate and intentional
We should have paid more attention to making it play better on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.
^is not an excuse, and is not a sign of negligence, it’s a copout, a platitude. - don’t afford them more than they deserve on this just because
I see, so you’re going to go only on the words of the people being under suspicion, thinking they would incriminate themselves and ignore any other sources of information. I’m afraid then that your opinion on this matter is of no consequence, sorry to have bothered you.
Where is the proof that it was intentional? It isn’t about fanboyism, this is about what it really is. This is no different than the people going stark mad about the seizure lights, saying they made a game just to cause people seizures and kill them. It’s just bizarre and has no ground on which to stand.
I’m going off of their prior history and their own words, yes. I don’t assume malice and work from there. The idea that CD Projekt Red designed a game for years just to lie to you and steal your money is asinine. It falls more along the lines of a far more common issue plaguing many devs/games these days, and it has nothing to do with 1940s villain-ish agendas to deceive and rob you.
Regardless of whether I think they lied to me to try and get my money, it doesn’t absolve them of the issue, it just doesn’t mean they intended to do it. What world does that even work in? If they knew their game performed like absolute garbage, and even was unplayable on two different consoles and to a point on PC, what benefit would it give them to release it? They themselves offer 60 day returns no questions asked, and other platforms they sell on also offer refunds (Steam for example). They would have to be absolute morons to intentionally release a game so broken it can’t be played and expect, upon that supposed intention, that people would not return it or that they would come from the fires of that scandal without a mark on them.
Do you guys think they thought every gamer in the world would not spot these unmissable issues and just accept it? I’m confused how people can come to the conclusion that laziness and negligence could = intent to deceive and steal when there is no evidence to that conclusion whatsoever.
A good example of intended deceit and false advertisement can be spotted with numerous other games, such as Chronicles of Elyria. That was practiced deceit to take your money. A game releasing earlier than it should have riddled with bugs (to a point of unplayable states) is not the act of malice, but sheer stupidity, laziness and negligence.
the dev team have said they vehemently said the game wasn’t ready for launch
the CEO straight up lied and said “it runs well on current gen consoles” before launch
PR, Reviews/review copies were restricted for PS4/X1
^if you can’t take this as “proof” that A they knew, B it was deliberate, then i’ve no idea what you require/want or how you can claim that isn’t fanboy stanning.
It is literally obvious, to eeeeveryone, that it was intentional, and not a mistake
heck the fundamental basis of QA means it’s impossible for them to not be aware, them being aware means what follows then has been intentional
that isn’t what’s being said. What’s being said is they released a product that, clearly, wasn’t ready for release - and the reason is not “malice” people aren’t saying that, it’s indifference to the consumer because what matters to CDPR is investors and fiscal year (boy that backfired now)
or they were banking on the consumer apathy and fanboy nature of:
it’s a cost benefit analysis, do the eventual sales outweigh the backlash(+patch cost) incl refunds? if yes, go ahead with launch, if no delay until can’t delay further. - and the sales did end up being bigger than the refunds
the dev team said the game wasn’t ready for launch, management pushed it, that is literally all you need to know to figure out what’s going on with this launch
it’s not CDPR being “evil”, it’s just CDPR going the route of regular AAA/capitalism product/consumer approach because investors matter more than “you” now
Can you provide links to these statements?
True, that’s how it is supposed to work, but rarely does. The drive to get it out quick, and on the backs of overworked dev teams, it rarely goes the way it is intended.
But that was what was being said, as you even repeated it above? It’s been repeated several times that their intention was to deceive you just to make money, that they released the game knowing it was unplayable and that they intentionally falsely advertised the game to consumers.
It’s kind of insulting to have my argument shuffled under the rug of “fanboyism” simply because it doesn’t appeal to you/the other side of the debate.
Except there’s no benefit in intentionally releasing a game that is literally so bug ridden it is unplayable? I get the argument if it weren’t so bad, because we’ve seen it before. Such as they release a game with some problems because the few issues can be worked out and excused over their gain (Assassin’s Creed Unity/Origins for example), but Cyberpunk 2077 doesn’t even work on 2 consoles and for a ton of PC hardware, it barely even runs. There’s no way someone on their side went through all of these issues, and the unplayable states, and said “Yea, this will work out”.
How is it easier to believe they knew it didn’t work and tried to scam people but unspeakable and fanboyism to suggest it wasn’t, but the cause of a more widespread issue known across all publishers and games?
I don’t want to get in this discussion, but I will say that I don’t think it is possible to assume that they didn’t know their game didn’t work on last-gen console
I definitely feel like they purposely hid that from the public because it simply seems impossible to me they didn’t know. It’s not like they don’t play-test their own game before releasing it.
and since all consoles (of the same type and specs) are identical to each other, there’s simply no room for any excuse there
Then make a better argument. Everything I have discussed here is from the Sid Alpha video, wherein he will show and tell you where each piece of information comes from. You can not expect us to spoon feed you every bit of information, least you can do is watch a 20 minute video to avail yourself of it.
If they weren’t giving it as much attention as the new consoles and PC, it certainly would explain it. If they aren’t aware to look at an issue, its going to be missed/ignored.
We’ve been hearing for weeks before release how the devs were put into over work to compensate for the early release date. I can’t imagine they were in a state to play test 4 different consoles with unique coding + PC and continue to work on the game itself.
Consoles aren’t identical? They all have their very own specific coding. It isn’t just to do with hardware. That’s why emulators don’t work across one another. They’re rewriting code for specific consoles to emulate them. It would be much easier if consoles were written the same way and shared the same hardware, but they don’t. That’s also why console ports are usually in such poor quality.
Though you are right, none of it excuses away the state in which the game was released to the audience, getting the context of the team behind it is important to note, even should it not erase their mistakes.
google is your friend, but i sure i can bother to toss one, do your own legwork if you want more (it’s literally all over games media)
not the same, pushing through dev+ QA accepting bugs is one thing, straight up running like arse, + crashing, even hard crashing consoles is a completely other form of intentional “oversight”/indifference. - heck the only way it could actually have been worse was if the game bricked the systems - it’s inexcusable, and deliberate to push something like that out
no, it’s not being attributed to malice because that’s a different thing than “greed”. And yes, they clearly deceived people , and were fine with that, knowing they released a product for a platform that wasn’t ready. They didn’t design the game to steal your money, but they lied and deceived about the state of the game and PR, because they game wasn’t ready, didn’t perform like claimed, and they (obviously) knew
^that is deception, noone is saying CP77 was a prop in a scheme to get money, like some gold bridge that didn’t exist, it does exist, - but what they did regarding consoles was straight up deception yes.
i mean if it fits it’s not my fault you literally said something quoteable that fits the AAA/capitalism consumer/product approach of what’s going on with game launches. That is what they are banking on, that people either ignore, are indifferent or forgiving of the bugs and accept the “we can patch” it - if they weren’t banking on that/“secure” in that the backlash wouldn’t be bigger cost wise, they wouldn’t do it, it’s that simple, “can it still make money”
and yet that is literally what happened, and the game, despite that shtshow, still made a profit
again, it’s not a scam, the game exist, it was just, in true AAA fashion, pushed out too soon. The right move would have been to delay the PS4/X1 launch even more, but they kinda painted themselves into a corner with their time/investor etc.
and the fanboyism plays in when refusing to accept it was deliberate, intentional, and knowing. Like the amount of blinders someone needs to have on to even think CDPR didn’t know how bad a state it was in is unfathomable.
And it’s not a the “cause” of an “issue” more widespread among the medium and producers. It’s an “individual”, deliberate, and “calculated” decision each and everytime. Bethesda or Ea pushing out buggy releases doesn’t make it more acceptable or forgiving, quite the opposite it should piss you off more CDPR stooped to their cost/benefit release approach. Just like you shouldn’t be accepting of them doing it either, because it’s not an excuse to release a shitty performing product. And like CDPR, they are also very aware each and every time.
^The game/sales itself made it worthwhile decision, like it usually is, but it had wider ramification for tCDPR than usual, which probably wasn’t considered since even Bethesda or EA botched launches didn’t have these big ripple effects
no, just no, that is fanboyism “if they weren’t giving attention/can be missed etc” - no, there is 0 way they weren’t aware, specially since devs told management it wasn’t ready
they have a QA department for that, devs don’t run forth and back playtesting then coding rinse repeat
they are identical enough, it’s why Consoles are easier to make consistent for than PC that has multiple configuration, while a PS4 is “always” just a PS4