Coronavirus


#81

I find this an interesting quote. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you seem to imply the world is overpopulated. This is not a novel or outrageous claim, but you just take it with a grain of salt that everyone would agree with you. With resources, and anticipating counterarguments, can you defend this statement?

One tiny point I’d start with, when it comes to 30+ years of data from the World Bank we have dropped undernourished births from 24.9% in 1990 to 13.5% by 2017 (with clear reduction trend continuing). We are producing bumper crops and variety to vary our diets, which helps everyone fight anemia, especially pregnant women. Every time we as a civilization face food shortages or hardships, we come up with new or creative methods of growing, planting, harvesting, or raising animals.

Furthermore, advances in fertilization, crop rotation, refrigeration, transportation, greenhouses, hydroponics, and many other areas of science have allowed the required percentage of agriculturally-inclined (farmers, ranchers, etc.) citizens to reach all-time lows as per-person yields have increased to the point that our world’s entire food supply is providing more than ever in every corner of the globe – from first to third-world nations. More productive, lower share percentage steadily improving for 100s of years means more people have the opportunity to do other jobs (or enjoy a higher standard of living). Every single laborer in Australia or New Zealand for example produces $92,600-$99,700 on average of real value to the economies there, and that’s everyone from the big corporate farms to the small family farms and includes seasonal labor and part-time workers. The amplification of labor through the means of tractors and other automation/machinery was a huge turning point over 100 years ago, and 2nd/3rd world nations are just now beginning to sow and reap these benefits as poorer African, South American, and Asian nations leverage the opportunities to become as productive as possible with the resources they have available.

All this from the perspective of I grew up on a farm in rural nowhere Colorado. Quite beautiful, but that’s besides the point – the only people I’ve ever heard complain about overpopulation are urban city dwellers with very little (if any) experience with the food supply. From the perspective of someone that’s lived 15 minutes outside tiny, 1 stop light towns to some of the most massive cities on earth on multiple continents, cities can be busy and seem crowded. And often are. But there is plenty of other land and space.

I realize that there are other issues we as humanity must overcome if we want to keep growing, from pollution to deforestation to global warming to others, but in general I am optimistic and confident in human ingenuity. When a problem is serious, we unite and challenge it head on. When we lack something essential, we create substitutes or alternatives. When we desire something necessary, we find a way. Based on every metric we have available, I can’t think of a better time to be alive than now as we have consistently improved the average way of life for everyone.

Look at the moon – we’ve been studying the rocks and soil we brought back from the Apollo missions for 50 years and haven’t found anything useful to grow or do with it, yet I’m still positive that if we so desired we can find a way to build a sustainable moon colony. Maybe hydroponics is the best answer since the soil is such garbage…but we’ll find a solution.

Bottom line, the earth isn’t remotely full or overpopulated and we can find ways to sustain 10 billion, 15 billion, or even 50 billion when it comes to it. I don’t think we give our farmers enough credit; they are very knowledgeable within their fields of expertise and find new ways to save water, use less pesticides, grow more using less, partner with university scientists to test new seeds/GMOs, etc. We aren’t even at peak production in the developed world, and the developing world is rapidly adopting modern methods to quickly become multiple factors more productive than previous generations for their region. Being fruitful and multiplying is something we excel at, and a few more babies isn’t tipping the balance anytime soon according to NIH researchers.

Again, not saying there aren’t things to be concerned about as a population, but this planet is huge and a trip out to the wilderness, forests, plains, swamps, mountains, or steppes is a great reminder when we forget. Click links for a taste of my home. :poop:


#82

Erhm what? USA suddenly went up from ~50000cases to number 1 with more than 80000 cases . Is this for real and reflect your national data as well,guys?? @YQMaoski


#83

Ugh… Unfortunately it’s true, with more testing the numbers are bound to go up more… We are still trending on the upslope, with that second derivative looking to be positive as well… Scary…


#84

That’s the exponential growth. It will jump again higher. And there are still untested people with minor symptoms so the number of “infected” is still higher.

People are guessing as to when the peak will be. But the USA is definitely not there yet.

If you notice, the highest concentrations of infected are in the big cities. The rural areas being less affected. But the rural areas will be affected even after people in cities recover. So even after peak number of infections, it will plateau for a while and slowly decrease. Meaning the disease will linger for a longer time.

Of course, that is if people can’t get re-infected.

PS. This might also be because of the careless Spring Break partying. Nearby my rural university, one kid came back and guess what? Infected. 0 infected before that time. So that’s just dandy.

Edit:
Also. Mr. 81,000 infected is estimated to have more than 9-21 million infected. Which is not much considering having more than a billion people. Of course the numbers can never be substantiated.

Edit2:
Well. This isn’t good either. This isn’t official. They are debating.


#85

#86

Yep i’m aware of everything you mentioned. I guess it was just a lag of information flow to our local news outlets because i went to bed with 50,000 confirmed cases in US and woke up with 80,000 cases which was a bit of a shock to me.


#87

I must have been asleep and missed this. It came out March 13. You can read the whole thing if you are very very bored.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6819-covid-19-response-plan/d367f758bec47cad361f/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

Now I can ignore the estimation of June/July and should plan for 18 months.


#88

Well that has FOUO markings and Not for public written on it. Which makes me wonder if we are supposed to be seeing it. It’s possible it has been approved for release though.


#89

Well, now people are freaking out because our numbers went up, but fail to understand that the more people you test (which they were demanding) means the more you find the infected. :sweat:


#90

How about the rainforests
being cut down and the land being cleared for palm oils and such.
A lot of the effects are on poorer countries.
There is just so much pressure on the environment.

Of course there is more than just overpopulation, such as political issues not allowing good decisions or people acting irresponsibily. So not everything is simply based on it. And just lessening population would not solve our problems.

The argument that we can overcome these limitations is to me the least convincing one of all of them and the least responsible.

GM crops are risky business tampering with things, and other such technology. The fact of the matter is that a lot of the benefits of something like GM crops doesn’t go to the poorer people but the richer to begin with.

The more people there are the more complex systems are needed to live life. Smaller spaces for people is another.

But the question is why should we
Why should we need to deleve into risky projects in the first place.

There are people saying we have to go to space to continue our growth. This would be insane.

I’m not sure overall i’d trust anything from the world bank.
They may be making some changes to improve themselves (which is good), but they have overall done more harm than good. https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/imf-and-world-bank-have-lost-all-legitimacy-we-need-new-alternatives/

A lot of the earth is not really habitable to us either or would require a lot of resources to make it so. There is the argument of having people in cities for efficiency economically so it does make some sense but that doesn’t mean that a larger population does not have some link with increased pressure on the environment.

I don’t think however it is right, that people should die for the sake of cutting down population, but that keeping population at a lower point would make a lot of sense.


#91

This is interesting

Also they are saying here might be 6 months at least before things are to be normal again


#92

TL: DR

The EU was supposed to be a bunch of countries that help each other. But as the Coronavirus spread, every country retreated to protect their own interests. Italy being the hardest hit has gotten no aid from the EU.

March 13th,

The European Central Bank’s refusal to issue bonds to help Italy recover. Italy was told in this instance it was on its own.

March 29th,

The coronavirus pandemic has sparked an unprecedented crisis throughout the European Union, with a huge rift erupting between the 27 member-states. This week’s failure to agree a joint EU economic response to the crisis has already set off a wave of furious criticism from leaders in Italy, Portugal and Spain. On Thursday, Germany, the Netherlands and other northern European countries rejected the plea of nine EU countries for so-called “corona-bonds” to soften the economic impact of the pandemic.

In irony, aid came from…others.

In their hour of need, they’re getting aid from places like Albania, Russia and Cuba, not their big EU neighbors.

As a response.

Locals are now burning European Union flags, and Italian politicians are ramping up the talk about getting the heck out of the European Union altogether…calling for an “Italexit” or an Italian pullout from the European Union altogether.

I think that the EU is in a lot of trouble. But I doubt anything will be done during the pandemic. After it is over, I expect major changes or lots of excuses and apologies.


#93

Tending towards pessimism I’m seeing two possible outcomes, full on collapse as we descend into bickering, blame games and eventually each nation trying to “get theirs” on the way out. Or draconian centralized over reach as the EU uses this pandemic as an excuse to destroy each member nation’s self governing powers so that in all future troubles the EU elites can better “protect” us all.

…or maybe everything will be just fine.


#94

As someone who lives in European Union i can say that this is BS mostly :slight_smile: while there are some tension and disagreements (which is to be expected in such crisis ) EU is giving money to all of it’s members .

EDIT: There are definitely countries which see this crisis as an opportunity to weaken EU and turn it’s members one on another but there’s strong understanding of that inside EU and we are used to desinformation from Russia and China.


#95

Now THIS is some interesting conspiracy theorizing!

In January and Februrary, China was buying as many medical supplies in bulk as they could from Sydney.

According to a company newsletter, the Greenland Group sourced 3 million protective masks, 700,000 hazmat suits and 500,000 pairs of protective gloves from “Australia, Canada, Turkey and other countries.”

And the conspiracy theory goes, China lied to the world about the deadliness of the choronavirus so that they could buy as much as they could for themselves. Then the goal was to damage the other countries by creating shortages in medical supplies. That’s a bit to far fetched for me. But I’ll accept China was helping themselves at the expense of others.

And I came across this list of lies by National Review.

I can imagine there will be a lot of anti-China sentiment for a while. Which is a shame because I have a few dozen Chinese friends and I can imagine them defending their government’s decisions.


#96

I really hope so, I mean we were all starting to have our eyes opened to Chinese influence over the past year or two and what a troublesome international situation we have found ourselves in. That is not to say we should turn on Chinese people, especially not expats.
Though if they speak or take action to glorify or excuse China, spread propaganda or try to enforce Chinese doctrine elsewhere then they should be vigorously counter argued.


#97

Like dude I’m Chinese, so I’ll find it deeply upsetting if the whole world would turn on my race.


#98

I missed this news. Detecting the virus is important but they got to make enough testing kits.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/markets/new-coronavirus-test-10-times-faster-is-approved/ar-BB118ePt

People are thinking that the huge expansion of coronavirus in Spain was related to this. At the time of the march, there were less than 600 cases. 2 weeks of incubation later, people find out they were infected.

FDA approves hydroxychloroquine sulfate & chloroquine phosphate for treating people.

I’ll skip today for news because the last thing we need is april fools news getting mixed into real news of the choronavirus.


#99

Updating ya’ll. Barbados is pretty much shutdown. Up to 35 or 45, a jump from 25 in any case. Curfew tighter; only essential services open. Discouraged from doing anything but getting food, getting medical care. Stay at home in full effect.

It doesn’t seem like a lot of people, but do remember my island is small. Also, the people here are very social - rum shops, bars, fetes, even chatting with strangers in line during a wait. So yes, best to make isolation mandatory. Meow. It’s a weird year so far.


#100

Looks like you have 45 reported so far:

Stay inside, and stay safe!