Briefly, I want to mention that Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines is fairly faithful to the source material from which it came and its “cult classic” status is well deserved. Now to answer the question at hand, this video game is an action role-playing game. It can be played in first- or third-person perspective; easily toggled between by using the Z key. As previously mentioned, it supports many different play styles in regards to combat, exploration, non-player character interaction and quest completion. The player is also able to complete various side missions that are not necessarily connected to the primary story-line by moving between Santa Monica, Hollywood, Los Angeles, and Chinatown. Down below, I am posting something akin to a neonate (i.e., beginners) guide; readers beware… a lil’ lore and a few minor spoilers contained within.
I didn’t play them much but I checked them out. Being forced to take long way through the sewers became boring pretty fast and most quest interactions remained largely the same.
I want to hear your thoughts on something. In case you didn’t know yet, VtMB2 starts you out as a Thinblood and you don’t get to join a clan until later in the game. Quite a number of people assume diablerie will be committed for this to happen, but I’m not so sure. What do you think?
No, let me see if a rephrase would be clearer: What would happen in VtMB2 to make it possible for the PC to join a clan after starting out as a Thinblood?
Being a Thinblood and also, unsanctioned, already put a bounty on your head. I can talk about more but they’re spoilery. What’s the best way to post spoilers here?
True enough. Usual way for a weakling to find themselves accepted would be through someone powerful finding a use for you, probably thinking you disposable.
Hidden secret knowledge
Click the cogwheel in the post options and use ‘hide details’.
I guess you have to understand some of VtM lore/settings to put it into context. Thinbloods are looked down upon, persecuted and even, feared by most vampires. One of the reasons being the Gehanna prophecies, that’s why Camarilla Princes have Scourges. You don’t get to join a clan just like that. Something special/major has to happen.
Spoilers! You've been warned!
It’s also why at the start of VtMB2, you’re being tried by the clans (they want to figure out the Mass Embrace) and then prepared to be executed. You only survived because of a fire. Later, you also see another another Thinblood being executed before you and the only reason you survive (again) is because your name isn’t on his list.
you gotta remember, it’s always possible for writers to find a way around things or issues -even regardless of actual lore in X instance, it’s like a stable in screenwriting etc when you build upon or expand on “your own” on something already made
i haven’t kept too close an eye on the details on VtMB2, so i’ve no idea how Hardsuit Labs has approached this, but since they do have the old lead writer for bloodlines onboard, they’ll probably come up with something that isn’t too tone-deaf to be fitting with the universe
might even be possible to spin it as some exciting underdog approach where you wont just be some lapdog merely beholden to someone cos “stronger”
Oh, I have no worries whatsoever over whether it’ll fit or not or be too dull. I have trust in Brian Mitsoda. I’m just very curious how they’re going to do it. Even though Diablerie is one way of doing it, it’s a somewhat extreme one and it has severe consequences.
yea but would also be sorta cool for them to expand on that no?, since wasn’t really all that present as i recall in the first game, being outlawed and such…
Okay, maybe I was understating it. How about heinous? Evil, even by their standards? Think of it as vampire cannibalism.
By the way, talking about being outlawed and such, you don’t have to stick with one faction throughout the whole game in VtMB2. You can switch faction and even anger the faction so much they don’t want to work with you anymore.There are also a bunch of new stuff like Resonance, blood carries emotions now and when you feed, you’ll consume the victim’s emotions and gain temporary buffs based on which type. Feed on one type long enough and you’ll gain permanent buffs, Merits. So many things to talk about!
yea but would have been kinda cool to not have been “restricted” like that in bloodlines tho
so it is definitely something i could see provide a plethora of features for them to play around with, “morality”, affinity, and faction “respect”. Like if you kept chomping down on older generations (for instance if they would make slight power boost doing so) and then have X snob sneer at you while maybe some of the other more “savage” either just tipped their hat in your general direction or maybe even took a straight up shine to you.
depending on how big they make it, exploring the sabbat or inter-faction “relations” determined by your actions would not necessarily be a bad thing i think. Just so you aren’t “straight” bound to be "the good guy"vamp even whether or not you tow the line according to XY tradition’s policy.
sometimes you just want to be a beast and let lose, and not have the game serve you a "game over/you failed"screen, just because you didn’t feel like staying within too narrow a script
“options” could be cool, so that action A don’t always lead to consequence B. Slight variations to be had and played around with, even such as diablerie could be real and a twist on a “game changer”. Actually might even be able have it make even more sense if in connection to pc being thinblood i suppose. Doesn’t really have to be bad (in term of stuff/feature in the game) just because it’s “bad” in the eyes of certain’s traditions/“vamp morals”
but i think it’s also much to early to hope for or think about XYZ, or even with what they say is/will be. aaaaa lot can change in a year…
First, let me explain more on Diablerie. It’s not just you feed on another Canite and simply walk away being a lower generation and that’s it. There are risks such as some parts of the victim’s souls living within you, consuming from within and eventually taking over your bodies. It’s how some low generation vampires are believed to survive their death.Also, if your target is a low generation vampire and you’re just a Thinblood, there’s also the question of how you’re going to do it in the first place.
With that out of the way, I’ve never said Diablerie is a no-no simply because it’s evil or that reactive NPCs are bad, etc… Not sure where you get that from. In fact, I mentioned the ability to switch and piss off factions because I like the different options and reactive NPCs. I could also talk about other ways VtMB2 give you options and react to your actions but I’ve rambled on enough.
didn’t say you did, the game did. As in it didn’t even allow getting close to it because it straight up denied you feeding on kindred, which was kinda “restricting” -hence my meaning the possibility of exploring it, or if they straight up do it, in the sequel could be kinda a cool switch-up on things. And then the bonus potential as something to build even further upon ofc.
Granted lore-wise it might be something “deep” for those following the World of Darkness, but for the rest of us, it’s gotta be condensed into something that translates game-wise or in the narrative
-which was fairly limited because “bad”-explanation over, oh okay, guess there is nothing more to say about that mr talkie guy"?-guess i’ll go munch on some rats then… /pout
it’s an intriguing concept, thus would be kinda awesome if it got featured in the game, maybe even “prominently”, -and was just a thought it could be used as plot-point “somehow” to be related to being thinblood. How they’d go about i’ve no clue. Bribe a bunch of nossies to tie someone down for you to have breakfast on? i’m sure they could come up with something that made a little sense.
i just hope it’s “big” and grand
Your words such as "Doesn’t really have to be bad… just because it’s bad” were clearly targeted at me, but never mind. Just understand that what you’re asking for is much more than simply killing or feeding on other vampires and it has wide ranging repercussions.So if they’re going to implement it in game, they need to do it justice and not half-halfheartedly or just gloss over the consequences. If not, it’s better to just do it in another way. The last thing I want is for them to cater to some kind of vampire power fantasy while ignoring or butchering the source material. Then, they might as well call whatever it is they created a different name and not VtM.
I will assume that Paradox and Hardsuit Labs will stay more or less true to Vampire: The Masquerade canon. My thoughts on the matter of how your Thin-Blood chooses a clan, is that all roads lead to Diablerie, regardless of sect. However, I do believe that the acts leading to said Diablerie will vary.
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For instance, choosing your clan via Camarilla membership, the Prince of Seattle uses the proverbial carrot and stick approach. Serve them well and do what you’re told. As a reward, a political rival of the Prince who just so happens to be from the Clan that you want to belong to, is suddenly declared persona non grata and a Blood Hunt is sanctioned against them. Refuse to serve the Prince or failure in your duty to the sect, as a probationary member, invites the so called “stick”. The Final Nights will have a whole new, more intimate meaning to you. In other words… Your. Final. Night. Welcome to the Machiavellian politics of the Camarilla, neonate.
Perhaps being twice-damned, due to the circumstances of your embrace and your Thin Blood, your subsequent tribunal before the Camarilla leads to a distaste for the sect. You rebel against the Prince, revel in your damnation, and throw your lot in with the Sabbat. Similar to clan selection via a Blood Hunt, maybe a Wild Hunt is declared on a Sabbat traitor by an Archbishop or a War Party is called to order against a Camarilla elder. Thus begins your war against the Antediluvians and the tyranny of their catspaws, young Sword of Caine.
Though the Anarchs themselves are not a sect, per se; a loosely-organized Anarch Movement has emerged over the course of the past century. While many Anarchs are indeed anarchists, the more traditional desire has been to bring equality and democracy (or at least meritocracy) to Kindred society. They have begun to establish their own traditions, power blocs, territories, and all the other trappings of a full-fledged sect. Thus begat the Anarch Free State of California. It would stand to reason, that expanding Northward would consolidate their base of power on the West Coast. Once again some variation of a “Hunt” could come into play, in regards to joining a clan. Another possibility to consider, maybe an Anarch outing goes sideways and your fledgling succumbs to the Beast. Whilst frenzied you diablerize (X) Cainite foe, that’s one less tyrannical Camarilla elder or True Sabbat fanatic in the world. “You are what you eat”… amirite? Reject the status quo of vampire society, take up arms, and fight tyranny and fanatical oppression in all of it’s various forms, fledgling Autarkis!
¹ Tal’Mahe’Ra, Manus Nigrum, or as they are known in modern nights, the True Black Hand. A secret society of vampires dedicated to supporting the Antediluvians in their crusade to destroy their wayward childer. Hoping to be spared during Gehenna, these vampires plan to serve the ancients and gain positions as favored servants. Antediluvians, vampires so ancient that mere mortal blood no longer sustains them. Only Cainite vitae, vampire blood, will slake the Thirst. In order to join a clan, you must survive initiation. One takes it upon th – eh, you get the picture, right?
The Inconnu; another extremely secretive sect of vampires… blah, blah, blah-blah, blah. Blah-blah-blah, blah! Do I really need to continue?
¹ Hand-Without-Sun
P.S. Who knows, maybe experimenting with Thin-Blood Alchemy and magical ² alicorn rainbow-farts does the trick. One can never know for sure, in the World of Darkness.
P.P.S. Sorry it took so long to reply, @zoex. Forty work hours over the course of three days leaves very little free time, especially when one factors in the need to sleep.
By the way, can Thin-Blood Alchemy still be used after Diablerie. Also, can Diablerists hide their aura from Auspex and not reveal their ‘crime’ when needed? I think Camarilla still doesn’t condone the act, right?
Also, how do you think they’ll handle it knowing some people would want to play as humanely as possible with zero kills.
In a few ways it could be said that Thin-Bloods straddle a fine line between mortality and undeath. Being removed from Caine by 14, 15, or 16 generations, their Cainite vitae is considerably diluted. That said, they are still fundamentally vampires. Due to the inherent weakness of ¹ Duskborn blood; they are considered clanless and therefore never suffer any specific clan bane or compulsion, cannot create Blood Bonds, perform the Embrace successfully with any absolute degree of certainty, rarely frenzy, ² shows some semblance of life, sunlight is less lethal, and sustains damage like a mortal but mends like a vampire.
They have no intrinsic Disciplines, unlike all other Kindred who have three or more. In game terms, when a Thin-Blood feeds they gain one dot in a Discipline associated with the Resonance of the blood consumed, together with one level one power in that discipline. If the Resonance is intense or stronger, they can gain an additional dot together with a second power. No additional powers can be gained in this way nor can the rating increase with experience. This Discipline lasts until Hunger reaches 5 or the next feeding. In short, they gain temporary Disciplines depending on the Resonance of the blood they consume. Therefore, this Discipline is essentially circumstantial. However, due to how thin their blood is, it is surprisingly highly mutable. Some, but not all, Duskborn can learn Thin-Blood Alchemy to create formulae; counterfeiting normal Disciplines or even creating entirely whole new effects.
A Thin-Blood who manages to commit Diablerie on a “true” Kindred absorbs not only their power and spirit but also their lineage, turning them into a 13th generation Kindred of their victim’s clan. The Camarilla occasionally dangles this prize in front of Duskborn who show themselves capable of running the dirtiest of errands and surviving, offering up a Cainite sentenced to a Blood Hunt as sacrifice. By lowering generation they are much closer to Caine, thus “thickening” the blood. This carries the boons and banes of whichever clan their victim belonged too. Meaning the blood is less mutable than it once was.
For example: Memorie was embraced by a 13th gen. Malkavian, thus becoming a 14th gen. Thin-Blood. Over the course of the chronicle a particular Ventrue neonate, Harlan, has been a bloody pain in her ass. Thanks to some social maneuvering and hard work she has become indispensable to Mortimer Morgenstern, the Nosferatu Prince of Sheboygan, Wisconsin. She has been relatively unseen by members of the Camarilla except the Prince and his proxy, a ghoul. Even Harlan has no clue who she is, he just knew the Prince was up to some clandestine shenanigans. As a reward, Mort offers her said Ventrue for Diablerie. Harlan is not only a nuisance, he was sired by a despised political rival. Once Diablerized, Memorie becomes a 13th generation Ventrue and losses the ability to mutate her blood with alchemy. Mr. Morgenstern not only gained an ally, but an ally that now has a dirty little secret. An ally, who in the near future can potentially begin to spy on the political machinations of the city’s Ventrue after she formally presents herself to the clan Primogen. Internally gloating, about how he dicked-over his rival, Mort allows himself to crack a sly grin. It is good to be the -king- Prince.
I believe there are amalgam powers, Blood Sorcery, or combo disciplines that allow one to temporarily hide Diablerie veins in your aura. These black veins will persist for a year, or if the diablerist’s generation was lower than their prey’s, they persist for a number of years equal to the original difference in generation.
Allowed under certain circumstances, though it is generally frowned upon.
I think it could be handled similarly to how it was in Vampyr. Draining a human completely dry allows the swift gain of vampiric power, but at the cost of your humanity. A zero kill run would be noticeably harder, because you are weaker. You would need to play more intelligently and be very cautious. There might be some achievements, unlockables, and a good ending for completing the game with zero kills.
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