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Epic Vs Steam and Regional Pricing


#41

Okay, but it doesn’t matter if you agree with it, it is just how it is sadly. It costs too much. They lose profits with it because devs branch their work out through companies like Epic and Steam, who would then need to take on the massive costs of regional pricing and accepting extra payment methods (There is a country (I think it was Sweden? Maybe Denmark), where they use Payvolla or something like that, and Steam has to absorb the cost, losing them money*). And if they lose money selling things cheaper, why in the world would they keep that going? It makes no sense for them. GOG did, Epic started to and even admitted on Twitter that if they started adding payment methods they’d have to charge you to make up the difference in where they were losing the money.

And I thought I already did tell you? They’re being charged providing you and all these countries these benefits. It costs them a lot of money to keep it up. They aren’t making a profit. Look, if you don’t believe me, just google it up. You’ll see countless people talking about, discussions even, and you can branch into the topic further as to why it costs them if you still doubt that it costs them money to bring these benefits to people of all these countries. I mean, if the guy from Epic himself stating it on Twitter isn’t enough and GOG having to revert from regional pricing isn’t enough, then I honestly have nothing else to say. :sweat_smile:

*or something Scandinavian

EDIT

Epic is just luring people into a hideous van by leaving a trail of candies straight to it. When the candy is gone and you look up, you’re already trapped. :joy:


#42

Yeah the UK for example lol but I don’t consider brits to be european I guess cos isolation. Plus when I think of europe it is usually only western europe.


#43

Welcome, welcome. I’m not sure from which part of the Europe you are but me being from one of the poorer countries in the union 60$ is still a freaking lot.

Someone in South America for example would have easier time paying 10 or 15 $ bucks for game than i have paying 60.


#44
  1. making less money per purchase is not the same as losing money; profit is still profit (as for your argument regarding alternative paying methods costing money: see 3)
  2. chrono.gg sells at heavily reduced prices, which is comparable to regional pricing (the price they actually sell at), exclusively, so they prove that you can turn a profit selling at these prices (and you’re gonna say they have a very limited staff, but that doesn’t change anything, those other companies already have their fixed costs of running everything, just like i said, they have to spend those costs regardless of whether they implement regional pricing [and make extra money on all those extra sales] or not; it’s just that some companies understand that and some don’t)
  3. i never spoke of alternative paying methods, only regional pricing. all these countries have paypal. I can’t use paypal cuz im a foreigner here and that comes with certain restrictions. I need a credit card to use paypal and obtaining a credit card as a foreigner here is very, very hard; in my bank it’s impossible. I myself use Payoneer, something which humble, chrono, and now also Epic accept, so that’s one example of an alternative payment method that is doable (which is besides the point, cause im not even talking about that, but then the solution would be to simply not implement those options which are too costly, which is what they are doing already, so this is a non-discussion)

#45

There are some region blocks as well.


#46

wasn’t aware GOG pulled back from regional pricing. Which countries? We still have BRL here.

Loads of really rich people here so you’re probably right.

Minimum monthly wage in Brazil is roughly BRL 980. That’s USD 240*. So $60 is 1/4 of our monthly income.

Out of sheer curiosity, @DontBeSilly, how much is minimum wage there?

*As of today, Dec. 22nd 2019.


#47

Around 350 euros , so something like 390 $ .


#48

Well, told my mom about these insane prices, and she promptly told me she was paying for those games and told me to buy a bunch of others as well, so now I bought:

  • Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order
  • Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon Wildlands
  • Tom Clancy’s Ghost Recon Breakpoint
  • Control
  • Tetris Effect (like I said, I’ll buy it after the sales)
  • Trover Saves the Universe

all that for: 64.44

(too bad there’s no regional pricing on Borderlands 3 and The Outer Worlds)

“ty Epic Games” is all I can say to that (and TY, MOM, LOVE U :heart_eyes:)


#49

for perspective, minimum wage for a governmental employee here (those are the only ones who actually have minimum wages here, and that only started 7-8 years ago) is $93.80

Cleaning ladies in the schools i used to work in used to make $54 (at the dollar rate at the time, that dollar rate then started to gradually decline and that salary would now be $18, but i have no idea how much they make now, but it definitely will be less than a government minimum wage)


#50

It’s not regional pricing that GOG abolished, it was their “fair exchange rate” sort of deal they had where you got money back based on exchange rates. When a publisher set the prices through them to be $60 in the us and 60€ in EU they would dip into their own pockets and give you ~5€ back in gog credit. That’s the program they discontinued earlier this year.


#51

That’s certainly a change of pace in the discussion. Merry Christmas as cheers to your mom.

Makes me reflect on how fucked Brazil is. Our minimum wage has not been adjusted to reflect the inflation for around the last 20 years or so iirc.

Some of our most renowned economists (such as Ladislau Dowbor, who worked in the United Nations and wrote the brilliant and elucidating “A Era do Capital Improdutivo”) argue it should be at least TWICE what it currently is to ensure families can EAT and pay their bills with dignity. So where it’s currently $240 it should be $480.

GG Brazil.

This is fucked and pisses me off.

One of my most shocking experiences when I travelled to Western Europe was chatting with my friends about wages. But not just wages themselves, but how much things costed compared to their wages.

I remember getting furious at what a small porcentage of their wage would go towards a jug of milk. Meanwhile, even if a poor middle-sized Brazilian family converted their entire month’s wage into the milk they’d need to feed their kids for the month, they wouldn’t be able to cover it.

Yeah, we did the math.

Fuck Capitalism.

Ah, thanks for reminding me of that and for the thorough explanation.


#52

Selling at reduced prices infrequently or specially is not the same as offering, long term, regional pricing, so that is not an argument against alternative payment methods. I don’t think you understand what I am trying to say here? And several arguments against this has already been put up against you. If you can’t take mine for fact, consider from a business stand point Fraggle’s argument. If they offered games at a considerably lower price in other countries, it would be incentive for people in places where it is expensive to just buy them there (and possible resell them on grey market sites at profit). And that there means a large profit loss for both the company selling them and the devs making them (don’t believe me? Ask a dev how they feel about it). A business is a business first.

And I feel like you are ignoring it at this point, look at GOG (fair pricing (by offering credit back to make up the regional difference), but you get the ppicture, these things are not sustainable) and other examples. They tried and they could not keep up with the increased costs without charging someone, so rather than unfairly charge the user for that cost of keeping it, they got rid of it and kept the DRM-free mindset they are known for.

And I know you never mentioned it, it is important regardless and isn’t “besides the point”. They can’t just put in a payment method and that’s that. Some of these payment methods charges them [stores] to be used. If they have to reach out to all of these countries with said benefits, they have to start offering alternative payment methods for the customer in said countries which charge them a lot of money (which is why I mentioned one Scandinavian country where Steam has to eat costs and lose money). They can either absorb the costs of the charges, lose the costs somewhere in features else/ask the devs if they will absorb the costs (ridiculous but maybe they will) or charge the customer somehow. Steam can afford to do this because absorbing the cost is justified by the profit they make.

Here’s the tweet by Sergey Galyonkin discussing alternative payment methods and how, if they add more, they’d have to start charging you. These payment methods come with regional pricing [hence the context of the tweet thread].

You may then ask why they’d have to start charging customers for that transaction cost. It is because of the price cut in the games they’ve been offering + the regional pricing. A 12% cut was never going to be sustainable and they began to find that out as they branched out. If they put up with the payment methods on top of it, they’d be losing somewhere around 25% on every transaction. That is insane loss for them.

These benefits you want don’t come cheap and like magic. Epic is offering them because they currently can afford to but as shown above, it is becoming way too costly to keep up with it and not even Epic will give you something for free.

I’m just telling you it never works out. One thing gives out and it is always the regional pricing.


#53

I feel you , but even though that ~400$ might sound like a lot , we also pay same for stuff as Germans or French do whom get something like ~1200$ for a minimum wage.

I’m not THAT familiar with Brazilian history but down here we have really clear culprit for our economical situation and in part i’m sure Brazil was also kissed by ‘socialist dream’ …


#54

This is so funny. You keep talking about alternative payment options, which has nothing to do with what I’m talking about.

I’m talking about regional pricing. These alternative payment options are not present atm either, yet they charge $60 for the games through paypal and credit cards.

I’m talking about regional pricing with the same payment options.

It says enough that EA, out of all people, is doing it on Epic. They would never do it if it wasn’t getting them profit and costing them money instead. (and the same for Epic, I don’t see why it would cost them money instead of making them money using the same payment methods)

Now I’m also done with this discussion.


#55

I’m not sure what you are trying to say so forgive me if I misunderstand you here.

It isn’t about someone’s narrative. That is just how it is. A business operates with the intent at making a profit. When something begins to lose them money, and a lot of it, it makes no sense for them to continue whatever it is that is losing them money. They also have no obligation to do so.

We can discuss that is not right or whatever for the consumer, but is it right to that business have to pocket massive losses just to offer things at cheaper prices in multiple countries? It seems like a lose-lose. They can try to be the nice guy and offer it, but eventually they have dilemma on their hands, unless somehow they can turn a profit enough to not have to charge someone or make the difference somewhere else. Which is possible, I guess, just never seen it (anyone else?).

You say that consumers still have have to pay for it. That’s true, in many ways, but remember. It is a business first, not your friend. It is rough, but that is just how it is. It has to look at it through that lens first. What matters to it first and foremost is profit. You, as a customer, having to pay more now without them losing much is better than them offering you a better method at reduced cost to their pockets and at a greater loss to them is a much sweeter deal. Not all companies are like this, that’s true, but most are.

Now I’m not arguing against the idea that people should have these options at all, hopefully people don’t get the wrong idea. I’m just stating why most gaming companies don’t offer it, at least for long, and why it doesn’t make sense to the companies themselves to prolong it.

I’ll answer it.

It is about money purely. Once they see it dropping, they don’t see a reason to continue it. May I ask why you think it is a political matter though? I would be curious as to the answer, if you are willing still (saw you said you’re done, so if you don’t that’s fine of course). :slight_smile:

I’m sensing anger here and there is no reason for it.

I’m trying to tell you that alternative payment options does have everything to do with what you are talking about. You not bringing it up doesn’t mean it doesn’t have relevance here. You just don’t seem to be getting it. When you branch out to regional pricing, you begin to offer foreign alternative payment methods for the consumers. Which, a lot of them, charge businesses to use them for. The two goes hand in hand. I even gave you a twitter discussion of Sergei (of Epic, even) discussing regional pricing having this attached to it and how branching out further would require even further alternative payment methods, which would charge them, and would have to be justified by pushing the expenses off to the customer.

I don’t know how else I can explain it to you.

See above.

???

Please go back and re-read my posts. If EA/Origin offers regional pricing, good for them (considering what they turn offer in a year and what they profit in a year, that would be very surprising but hey, I won’t doubt you (especially since Fallen Order just had a huge issue with regional pricing???)) that is besides my argument. I never said there aren’t companies out there with it (and I even just asked if anyone knew of anymore). I clearly even mentioned GOG as an example (well, fair pricing, but it operated in a similar attempt at it so you get the picture) and clearly discussed Epic currently using it (and am discussing how it clearly will not be using it for long). The problem is that most cannot turn a profit with it. And the fact that Sergei on Twitter was openly discussing pushing charges onto customers proves my point exactly.

You not getting it doesn’t mean it doesn’t cost them money. It comes down to if they can beat it with a profit.

Alright then.


#56

Fallen Order and Control should be awesome…


#57

to me they should all be awesome, although for quite different reasons respectively


#58

Smart move. I’ve been here cussing mildly in my mind reading some of the comments.

I live on an island where our Import, Shipping and major Food suppliers are owned by Monopolies. All of the family are pretty much interrelated too - former Plantation owners to boot - now we’re enslaved by people who set prices as they like, with no one able to call them out, because they are literally a vast percentage of the economy.

Also, unlike the average person bringing a little shipping barrel or receiving a box at the Post Office, these companies DO NOT have to pay certain taxes and they get kickbacks in other ways.

Plain and simple - they could afford to charge better prices, but what they would rather do is maintain low wages and make 300% profit (at least) on every unit of stock they sell. Not exaggerating. Ask @Pylinaer why I had to get my computer parts online rather than locally.

The minimum wage here for a cashier, for instance, is $75 USD, per week.

Like @M00, I simply don’t’ buy that “they can’t afford to keep up regional pricing”. Look at it this way: when a company wants to get rid of stock here, prices are reduced by 50 to 75%. Stuff that was not selling at all, gets bought up. Trick is, considering their mark up, they don’t actually lose profit - they just profit less than they would have liked.

If Steam was constantly losing money by hosting 75 to 90% sales, would they keep doing it? Valve has Accountants that would instantly be like: Hell to the NO! Multiple units at lower prices doesn’t lose these companies money - they just gain less profit. Breaking even versus not making sales is still a win for them, if you want to go that far.

Sorry for being a downer but I live this everyday, in my island paradise, that’s only affordable for Simon Cowelll (who I love don’t get me wrong) and other rich folk who can actually own a little piece of Bimshire, without breaking a sweat, or denting their wallets.

Sure, some companies may have business models that don’t make regional pricing viable - I’m no economist or accountant, don’t know. Generally though, it comes down to how much profit companies are willing to settle for - and in a capitalist economy, we all know how that’s gonna go.


#59

here it’s basically the people wearing khaki who own everything or at least a share in it (on a national or high level, i mean, not talking about small players [although someone is always taking a share somewhere, somehow, cuz otherwise nothing can get done ever]), and nothing much can happen without their consent (apparent or hidden)


#60

looks at breakpoint ,looks away,leaves the room