So article 13 has just been passed into law, and the EU has 2 years to implement it EU Passes Article 11, Article 13 Copyright Rules in Final Vote
What are your thoughts on what this means for the future of the internet?
Personally, I see one of two things happening—either big sites like YouTube and Facebook will block pretty much all modern memes, or they’ll just give up on the EU and not give the people there access (can get around that with VPN services, but most don’t know how to do that). The first option seems most likely regarding Youtube and Facebook, but I see the second option possibly being taken by sites like Reddit, which are heavily dependent on memes. Maybe there are other options out there, but I’m not thinking of any…
Is this the end of derivative artwork online? I have no idea. Guess it’s wait and see how it’s handled…
And so it begins…(Actually, it’s already started in other places).
Everyone should read this book, Little Brother… And then Homeland
"And now we come to how to write fiction about networked computers that stays relevant for 12 years and 22 years and 50 years: just write stories in which computers can run all the programs, and almost no one understands that fact. Just write stories in which authority figures, and mass movements, and well-meaning people, and unethical businesses, all insist that because they have a really good reason to want to stop some program from running or some message from being received, it must be possible.
Write those stories, and just remember that because computers can run every program and the internet can carry any message, every device will someday be a general-purpose computer in a fancy box (office towers, cars, pacemakers, voting machines, toasters, mixer-taps on faucets) and every message will someday be carried on the public internet…
Just remember that declaring war on general purpose computing is a fool’s errand, and that that never stopped anyone."
This video makes it pretty clear…
as i see it the main problem with the eucd is it’s (their desired)a precursor to isp lvl filtering and “worst case scenario” we’re talking eu’s own little chinese iron curtain in the future
(and considering they are already patrolling/policing speech on places like facebook, no it’s not that “far” of a stretch tbh imo)
eu’s fair use is already flimsy at best, we have rampant copyright trolls, and this will basically just blast the floodgates wide open
this is bad on so many abhorrent levels it’s mind bogling how it’s not just a straight up admission of political-corporate corruption from 348 people to get put straight in cuffs and face charges o.O
-they’ll probably ban vpns next
You know, I get that on Future Sound of Egypt’s full episodes on YouTube. (it’s music).
Which is kinda stupid since I can download and conveniently KEEP the episodes for free on iTunes.
Unfortunately you have to fight for your rights. If it comes down to it and the people care enough, they will have to make a stand. Otherwise this will only be the beginning and more will just arrive.
2 years is more than enough to make a stink out of it that they cannot ignore.
Nah, people standing up for their rights is good attitude but not enough change in the face of big corporations/governments.
For example, everyone is always saying “don’t keep the tap open while you brush your teeth.”
I mean sure I won’t, but all of us closing our taps forever would mean nothing in the face of the ammount of Coke’s waterwaste on plastic bottle production.
See here:
So “sure,” people will say, “I’ll close my tap but I need Coke! It’s so good!”
Similarly, so many people are against Artcile 13. But it passed. Someone had to be voting for the people who approved it.
Now I don’t live in the EU, and frankly know far too little about their voting process. I may be talking nonsense and the folk who approved Article 13 were elected by God and not the people. I don’t know any better.
But at least in my country, people will rise up after attrocious laws have passed without even stopping to think what led to them being passed in the first place. The money involved, the amount of people that could benefit from it, the general ignorance about what’s being approved.
Fighting back a parliment’s approval is never just about trying to revoke measures. It’s about understanding how they got there in the first place and undestanding that it’s not as simple as it sounds. The reasons are complicated, and more often than not the most efficient solutions are too. They’re expensive, complex, and time consuming and Coke, for one, is making too much of a damn huge profit to care.
I hope my analogy makes sense.
The problem is that each country gets a number of representatives and therefor votes based on their populations. This means that countries like Sweden, Denmark and Finland has far fewer votes than places like lets say Romania and Spain.
In effect this means that a collection of the least corrupt countries in the world are having laws created and approved by a collection of politicians elected by parts of the most corrupt countries in Europe. Doesn’t so much matter the handful of people Sweden send down there to vote when business interests can just throw money at eastern and southern politicians who are mostly there to stuff their own pockets in the first place.
Brexit might be a right mess, but days like these I really feel like it’s the right course for all of us.
I’m sorry, but you are very mistaken. History has shown that when you fight for it, you get it. After all, action is crucial, especially against tyrants. Signing a whole bunch of petitions or vocally complaining so rarely does anything that it becomes worthless (they’ll just come back with a different version and all that signing did was delay them). In a better world, that isn’t so, but sadly we’re dealt with the one we have.
When your government is stepping on you and threatening everything that you have, you shouldn’t just stand there and smile and hope that it goes away simply because you and thousands of others share the same distaste for whatever it is they are currently doing. Because they don’t care. They never will care. The only thing they care about is being forced to stop. That sort of thing, the inaction, is what got these people in this position in the first place—continuously allowing them [the government etc] to step on them like they mean nothing.
All their power has been stripped from them and now comes the fun part for those who took it.
Similarly, so many people are against Artcile 13. But it passed. Someone had to be voting for the people who approved it.
They got it passed due to favors etc etc.
And being against something in unison is not enough though, as clearly indicated by history time and time again. When is something going to be enough that their abuses cause someone to rise up and defend their rights? How much more do they have to strip from these people until someone gets it through their head that these tyrants will never stop unless someone does something more than what has been tried?
Yikes. That’s exactly how Bolsonaro got elected. More populated states have more votes for president, but unlike the US it doesn’t matter if you win in 60% of the states: if São Paulo were to unanimously vote for you, it’s so populated – 13 million in my city, and that’s the city, not the state – you’re pretty much elected.
Sorry for you guys, @NICK9X9 has told me a bit about how ridiculous Romania can be. GG
Hasn’t worked in all my country’s history (Brazil became Brazil in 1500), maybe that’s why I have this view. I’m glad it’s different for you.
I lost you here. I think I got you but I’m not sure and I rather not assume.
In any case, I’m not a person that believes in heroes, I believe in small actions that make a difference. That’s why I volunteer in many places, sign petitions when I can, attend rallies at least once a month, educate people about the laws Bolsonaro is passing in our country – regardless of my position – , read the news every day to stay informed…
I’m a small changes kind of person, and I’ve been seeing the small differences produced with my actions. That’s exactly why I’m studying psychology. I have a couple of goals and one of them is working with indigenous tribes in the Amazon, because no-fucking-one is doing that. Those people have no healthcare AND they’re getting SHOT and KILLED daily by OUR OWN GOVERNMENT.
I mean seriously our president said they should “go and eat grass outside if they’re so passionate about their roots.”
???
I live in a very backwards country. If I didn’t have my small hopes I would have killed myself by now.
We’re against a tyrant now and, pardon my French, we’re getting to fucking nowhere even though we have a HUGE opposition and Marielle Franco got killed a year ago BY OUR GOVERNMENT and people don’t acknowledge it was murder, just a “car accident”.
So I’m truly glad that in the EU standing up to injustice works. I really am. I’m glad it works somewhere, at least.
Because your country is in a far worse state, so it is going to take far longer and far more from the people. It is unfortunate, but when a tyrant is in power or a government is corrupt, they aren’t going to go peacefully.
You don’t give it one go or a half dozen half gos and give up. That’s not how it works. That’s now how you achieve your goal or independence. It takes the sweat and blood of people, sadly.
In any case, I’m not a person that believes in heroes, I believe in small actions that make a difference. That’s why I volunteer in many places, sign petitions when I can, attend rallies at least once a month, educate people about the laws Bolsonaro is passing in our country – regardless of my position – , read the news every day to stay informed…
What does that do when your government doesn’t care about your petitions? Your rallies? Or if you know the laws they pass? What do you do when they go forward with things that are majorly disapproved of by the people? Sign more petitions? Hold more rallies?
Back in the 1970s Uruguay, a dictatorship persecuted and tortured innocent people, including leftists, socialists, and political opponents. I can promise you their most treasured means of resistance at the time was not armed conflict, it was vocal and unified means of resistance (rallies, strikes (it was the most popular after all) etc). Things might have gone differently if they had had the power (and the will I suppose) to fight back when their people were being thrown into jails or disappearing at alarming rates.
What I’m trying to say is…there’s nothing wrong with being vocal about your disapproval, but it rarely does the job when the government listening doesn’t care. It takes more than words to sway change. It sometimes takes it all.
I thought memes are exempt now, or at least legally speaking? (Even if it happens that people are put off from posting them) They are seen as fair use.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-47708144
As for everything else sounds like bad news, other than the fact artists etc may have more ownership over their content now.
Pretty much it always looked that way from the start, judging the way the EU works that the law would pass in some form or another.
What are you suggesting? Taking up arms and shooting people?
I can understand where you disagree with me, but for the life of me I can’t understand what you’re proposing, in practical terms.
I’m also not an anarchist, so if you are we aren’t going to agree politically – which is fine, I still appreciate informed discussion and I hope you do too.
As a side note, I’m well aware of Urugay. Have you read about the Brazilian dictatorship happening at the exact same time? It was the same thing. We resisted, and I can give you many names of our heroes and how they fought back. I can give you links to the songs that were composed, explain to you how Brazilian music as a form of resistance was born, tell you about Olga who was sent to a concetration camp to die, do a write-up about Marighella…
But it would all end in the same. We’re embarking in a new era of dictatorship despite all their efforts. What do you say about that? I didn’t feel, in my skin, that history repeated itself until last year through the glister of my mom’s tears as the world was swept from under her feet and she remember her friends who disappeared.
What, practically, do you say we do about that? Not what we shouldn’t do – I already got you there.
EDIT: you know what, maybe it doesn’t matter. Some chronies have already discussed how against political discussions they are, and I don’t feel like sidetracking this EU thing more into a BR thing than I already have.
Truth is I know jackshit about how to deal with EU problems. You guys have ready-made food on the supermarket and clean tap water! You’re way better equipped at figuring it out practically than I ever will be theoretically.
Still appreciate the discussion though.
What I am suggesting is that people should be prepared to do more than speak words, words that fall on deaf ears, when the overstepping continues—and it will, because the petitions and rallies will do nothing. That’s all. What are these people—those currently being subjected to this—going to do when this is only the beginning?
You (plural you) continue to let people abuse you in the most unimaginable ways because you hope that your desires, vocalized, will reach them, and it almost never does.
You can minimalism it to just shooting people, but that isn’t the case. That’s the work of insurgency or terrorism to make your show of force on the people. I’m talking about in dire situations the need of a people’s revolution, something every country’s people should always think about when their government is acting a tyrant.
Just look at historical revolutions. The U.S would not be here without it. There have been many other revolutions throughout history, would you mark them as simply black or white?
I can understand where you disagree with me, but for the life of me I can’t understand what you’re proposing, in practical terms.
What I want to know is when is enough ever going to be enough? When will the peoples’ words not working, rallies or petitions not working, be the final straw before you (again, plural) do something more than sit back and watch your government abuse you in the most unimaginable ways? Would you rather watch it happen, like so many others have done, or would you stand up and fight to secure something more?
It may seem incredible unappealing to you to fight for your rights, to sacrifice for your people and yourself, but to push it aside like it means nothing is the greatest insult to those who have fought for it or continue to fight for today in their countries–like all the women in the Middle East trying desperately to secure themselves a foot hold, or all the insurgents fighting against terrorists that won’t allow their daughters to go to school.
My whole point is that sometimes it takes more than standing together and talking about what is wrong to make a change.
I’m also not an anarchist, so if you are we aren’t going to agree politically – which is fine, I still appreciate informed discussion and I hope you do too.
I’m not, I just see things for what they are. I understand that when a government overreaches and starts to do these things, your words obviously means nothing to them, because I can look back through history and see that it never changed anything and that doing nothing never did anything good for any one. I can also look back and see that civilians suffered considerably when they were not prepared and that when a country lost rights, it was never a good thing.
I’m simply stating facts, reinforced time and time again by history. Is it harsh? Certainly. I am well aware, but I would rather fight and bleed for my people and secure them the precious freedoms they have and make sure they don’t suffer, then sit back and watch it and them suffer because I was afraid to do something or because I thought those who were doing the bad would listen or change because we said something.
I can respect that you have a different opinion on the matter entirely. I was only sharing mine.
As a side note, I’m well aware of Urugay. Have you read about the Brazilian dictatorship happening at the exact same time? It was the same thing. We resisted, and I can give you many names of our heroes and how they fought back. I can give you links to the songs that were composed, explain to you how Brazilian music as a form of resistance was born, tell you about Olga who was sent to a concetration camp to die, do a write-up about Marighella…
Did these songs manage to change the form of government itself though? What sort of resistance in the end altered Brazil?
As far as I’m aware, the lefitsts had armed guerrillas (like ALN, I believe) attacking military units and robbing banks to disrupt the dictatorship. Bold, armed conflict to keep them on their toes and break them.
But it would all end in the same. We’re embarking in a new era of dictatorship despite all their efforts. What do you say about that? I didn’t feel, in my skin, that history repeated itself until last year through the glister of my mom’s tears as the world was swept from under her feet and she remember her friends who disappeared.
Are you suggesting that because the country is entering another dictatorship that prior works of revolution means it is ineffective? Wouldn’t it make more sense to pin it on the political party similarities that remained rather than that (meaning these political thoughts could harbor the same thoughts that led to these problems)?
I mean countless revolutions have occurred throughout history and have been successful, so I would disagree there if thatt’s what you mean, if not I apologize for the misunderstanding. It seems like South America is having a hard time with it though, that’s for sure, and it is partly because of economy and politics. It creates a booming environment for someone to take advantage.
I’m sorry to hear about your mother. Your mother’s suffering is exactly my point. She should never have had to experience that, and she, nor anyone else for that matter, should have to experience it again.
All I’m saying in the end is, shouldn’t a country’s people have a point where they say enough is enough? When they realize that their words aren’t working? Or do we just accept that as civilians we mean nothing and we should just let ourselves be treated like this? That we don’t have the right to fight back? Should we get to the point again where another Hitler arrives and he can march down the streets and just murder us?
What, practically, do you say we do about that? Not what we shouldn’t do – I already got you there.
I’m a bit confused, what do you mean by you already got me?
Still appreciate the discussion though.
I appreciate it too, it is always nice to hold a good discussion! Especially with a good Chrono member! 
I don’t think we have entirely different perspectives on the matter, as I agreed with many things you said. I just think I’m having a hard time exposing my thoughts.
I’m not in a good mindset at the moment and don’t have the mental focus required to reply adequetaly to all you asked. I’m sorry.
One thing I will say that I think explains a bit of Brazil is that it is one of the most unequal countries in the world. The people who support Bolsonaro and see no issue with the '60s-'70s dictatorship are the ones who hold the power. Since we also have terrible education, most of the middle class and low class citizens have little to no idea about what happeend or is happening. Many don’t have internet, and the open TV channels available to everyone manipulate the content to make it seem like all is well.
Things here are much much more complex than I alone can explain to you on this forum. A resource you may use to keep up to date with matters in English is Glenn Greenwald, one of my personal heroes.
Here’s one of his write-ups in his excellent indie news platform:
ladies and gentlemen
professional adults at work
Ok. I read the article and some things just don’t make sense to me.
As far as I know, each country in the EU still has their own sovereignty. The EU was supposed to just be a means for maintaining peace among European nations and stabilize the economy/currency. I didn’t know that the EU had the jurisdiction to enforce laws onto every nation’s citizen in the EU. It seems like they are encroaching on each country’s constitutional laws that protect their citizens. What of the countries that voted against? If their citizens and politicians don’t want it, the EU should not force it on them.
As far as memes. As far as I know, the USA is the only nation with free speech laws. I can’t find a country that protects free speech as it being a part of the constitution. So “fair use” is only experienced when a US internet company has it and the world gets to see it. So basically, the EU countries are able to enforce copyrights. And they will have to create new layers of expensive bureaucracy to monitor the entire internet as viewed from the EU. Kind of like China’s great firewall, but filtered only for copyrights…for now.
Seems like another reason to leave the EU.
I agree, the EU doesnt really listen even if you vote against them for the most part (unless its in there interests to give you an exception, that was usually with the UK till now). Which isnt exactly democratic. And different countries have different needs and cultures which is ignored.
The main problem with leaving the EU is that its made very hard to do so with countries being so tied into it.
There are also benefits from the EU to be lost.
As UK with brexit has shown its hard to leave (though also the incompetence of politcians). Fair use type laws do exist but yeah I think US has the most explicit free speech enabling laws, plus things like hate crime laws in many places make it harder to say certain things now for better or for worse.
UK doesnt have a written consititution so you won’t find one haha (ok we have other documents instead so good enough).