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The Battle Royale between Battle Royale gaming studios


#133

since they paid Ninja, lirik etc zillions to initially play Apex and subsequently make it a smash hit, i wonder if they are gonna do the same with this :thinking:
or just write off BF V’s loss already? :man_shrugging: :smile:


#134

that’s not what makes a game a hit though, remember Radical Heights?


#135

the game is probably good no doubt, but, the fact so many top streamers “showcased” it at launch, is also no doubt what had a significant (if not the major) factor in it’s popularity and massive rise
Ninja alone doing “anything”/“not playing fortnite” immediately blows sht up


#136

listen dude, each streamer had 1 sponsored segment of a few hours and 1 tournament of a few hours, nothing more, and for the rest most streamers are playing this game day-in day-out cuz they love it, just like they did with Fortnite btw. I know cuz i watch several streamers every single day.

Just like suddenly they’re almost all playing GTAV rp these days, there’s this revival, it’s not cuz Rockstar is paying them to do so.

and there’s been tons of games who have sponsored segments on streamer channels all the time, that doesn’t do anything at all, if the streamers love the game and keep playing it, y, that does something, but 1 segment on 10-20 channels does nothing at all, there’s plenty of proof for that, there’s plenty of games that did that and went nowhere

it’s quite the opposite btw, if Ninja plays Radical Heights for a sponsored segment for 3-4h and then never goes back to it again his whole viewer base knows he thinks the game is inferior to the other product and Radical Heights goes nowhere at all…

not to mention that it’s on the screen and in the description that it’s sponsored to begin with…

also, as a side note, noteworthy to mention that Lirik has been publicly acknowledged for almost singlehandedly being responsible for the rise of BR as a genre (after PlayerUnknown ofc) as it is because he’s THE streamer who made BR so popular back in the days of the Arma mod.


#137


#138

i’m not even gonna argue the numbers or celebrity status, we both know in the streaming space Ninja is “the” biggest atm even if Lirik is the "grandad of BR"
furthermore Apex has little to no marketing going for it, EA basically propping Anthem up the traditional way blocking out Apex in the way so that the game even existing and “being out” was a surprise to so many -that’s it’s even been mentioned by people in the industry the lack of Apex pre-launch marketing was a bit strange
then combining it with the massive move of blanket covering all the top streamers, yea you bet it had a major impact
and ofc, had the game been utter shite, it would not have sustained it, like Radical Heighs, but you’re also not naive enough to think that when Ninja (or lirik) streams something with (paid)“enthusiasm” that it’s not gonna massively boost the influx of numbers, -and it’s the influx they’re banking on initially. Because if you get enough, then there is a greater chance they’ll stick around even if your product is only half decent *coughPUBG*cough. Radical Heights didn’t do too well on the numbers(compared), despite their attempted pr, and being a “rip off”+poor product didn’t help.
But yea, Apex had nearly 0 marketing, ofc it’s basically the streamer PR that made this product what it is -no one even know it existed otherwise, the fact it’s good only helps it, but no doubt wouldn’t have been enough to make it what it is without the assistance of stream marketing

and again, “Ninja doing anything” is a thing, and will increase the numbers massively, even if just temporary. It’s an old concept proven time and time again… How the hell do you think Poop in my soup got so popular without certain people doing lets plays of shitty or meme games that would otherwise have flown completely under the radar.
So when it’s done with a real game, ofc it boosts numbers even more, and is exactly why companies are rolling out the marketing mullah so much more and more in their direction, because it has a real impact.
Again, Apex had almost 0 visibility before streamers because EA was almost scared, that’s why they banked all the E3-to now traditional marketing on Anthem (hindsight 20/20 :joy:) -so yes this one is definitely on streamers+paid promotions, because people didn’t know it even existed; because EA didn’t really want us to(they wanted us to buy Anthem which would be a success).

and my whole point was that BF V was such a dumpsterfire for EA that even with paid promotion, “wonder if it would still be at a loss”/“might be too late so save even with popularity boost”? -because that game already has its past now.


#139

first of all, u need to get yr facts straight, Ninja is #8 atm, with only 25K subs, Shroud has 100K…, and so there’s 6 ppl in between even, and i think Ninja is only on his way down more and more.

the reason Apex is so popular is cuz it’s a free-to-play, complete product that is fun to play and super-optimized and 1st player so not in direct competition with Fortnite on that front

also what “paid” enthusiasm are u talking about when u had a 2-hour paid segment but the streamer has been playing the game every single day for over a month, losing viewers every single time cuz ppl are sick of it. Every single day ppl complain about Lirik playing Apex instead of doing variety.

again, the main point is, had the streamers just done the sponsored thing and then not kept playing the game cuz it was’nt good enough, like Heights, then the game would not have succeeded either, the streamers keep playing cuz the game is rly good, just like with Fortnite, and the customer plays cuz it’s rly good too, just like with Fortnite.


#140

circle killed u, yr out, sry

:rofl::rofl::rofl:


#141

who cares about subs, it’s all about views, and followers, “media presence” of which Ninja, (as far as i’m aware) is the biggest, at least the one constantly being propped up in media -i don’t see shroud mentioned 24/7 by "awmagahw Xinsertninja did something"
and no, that might be the reason it has sustained popularity, but that’s by no means why it became popular, no one knew it existed, they would have kept playing fortnite or checkers.

and that’s where i disagree,
the game and product might being different (and better than heights) to “hold” them, but the massive numbers they got in initially is purely because of that.
you suddenly get 50mill people aware you exist, doesn’t really matter those “5mins” if you are good or bad, now people check you out. If you are good, sure you will last, and get more millions increase per week, like they did, but the game had been DOA if not for that concerted stream marketing, and it was imo pretty smart of Respawn to make sure their game wasn’t overly hyped, but came sorta as a surprise from the sidelines


#142

all im saying is, the game succeeded cuz streamers love the game and keep playing it and the consumer loves the game and wants to play it; that has nothing to do with zillions of dollars (that’s not even true, they might have gotten like 25k-50k depending on their size) being thrown at them

what’s wrong with that?

and im not sure ninja is still being mentioned in the press btw, if he is then it’s just cuz the press haven’t figured out yet that the hype is over, rofl

again btw, look at Shroud doing it all without the press…

the press only moved in cuz ninja was suddenly so big, it’s not the press that made him big

it’s the same thing here, the game is big cuz it’s so good and streamers love it, the game didn’t get big just cuz 10 streamers got 1 sponsored segment…


#143

yea, but again, if no one knew it existed or would come out, no one would even have streamed it on their own.
the marketing made sure streamers knew it was a thing, and “would you kindly play it”(that’s the zillions) likely just made them happy about taking a short break from whatever (not that they wouldn’t have tried it maybe, but they didn’t know it was coming until respawn pr poked them)
again the point being, that a success booster like a good marketing(which apex had) -would BF V still be at a loss ?(such so that EA wont even bother tossing a fewer zillions at stream marketing like that here again)?
i’m thinking it’s not just a bad move but it’s the wrong move to do “now” with apex hitting so big, they should have waited (or had it way earlier) my guess is if people can choose between a 60$ BR mode or Apex they are gonna choose Apex…
(at least the way i’m understanding it’s gonna be a free update to the game for owners, not a f2p mode for people?) -aaand bf V is kinda dead with what “couple” of thousand players? :man_shrugging: don’t think a BR mode is gonna bring much back for that, at least not that many new buyers, even at a current 50% discount :thinking:
“could Ninjashroud or “grandaddy BR” save that?” :face_with_raised_eyebrow: my guess was no


Ninja got 1 mill alone, (“blowin up in the press”), just sayin :wink:


#144

u see, what yr saying here is exactly the point i’m making, EA wouldn’t be able to make BF V a huge success by paying zillions of dollars for some streams cuz that won’t matter because the streamers will not keep playing that game as soon as the sponsored segment is over

the reason Apex is so big is not cuz there were sponsored segments, it’s cuz the streamers kept playing

and maybe ninja did get a million, rofl, but i doubt that, it’s just an unconfirmed report at this point, and obviously he won’t deny it cuz this is great for him, let all other companies think that this is what they should pay him…


#145

like i was saying, problem being BF V already has its past, consumer “mood” set one way or another for(/against) it (among other obstacles for sure)
Apex was new, and it has worked/does work for “new”/fresh things where there is no bias one way or another yet.

Does it being free help? ofc, does it being Fortnite esque without actually being fortnite/being its own game help? ofc, does it help it’s actually a good game and competently made, ofc.
But, with the right promo, you can literally sell poop to the masses, the more shiny or polished a turd then is just makes it easier/better, but without anyone “selling” your product, you’d also be more sure to fail. They had 0 presence or marketing, it would 100% have flown under peoples radar, and not gained a fraction of its current popularity, -without those streams/marketing “popular people/celebrities spreading the word”, guaranteed.

Sht literally ticks up when X celebrity shoutouts something, again poop could be a thing. Apex would never have been a thing, without those streams, because no one even knew it was a thing without, because no one ever said it’s coming or “btw apex is in store and free” :man_shrugging:

Even the Kardashians couldn’t save Hitler’s image, sure. Doesn’t mean sht doesn’t fly of the shelves when they promote a product. -gaming is not much different, and is why they are tossing money at YT/Streamers as marketing for their games, it works, (even a bit for poop).


#146

yr forgetting one detail btw

EA did pay a whole bunch of streamers to play BFV at launch too, same with COD, same with Heights, same with a whole bunch of games; I distinctively remember that, so there’s no difference there whatsoever…

COD and BFV actually did have the marketing machine going, but they also paid the streamers for sponsored segments all the same, the difference is that Apex did it without the marketing, not that there were sponsored segments

this again proves that sponsored segments are not responsible for the success of the games cuz all big games do that now, even a lot of smaller games…

the reason this game is so big is cuz it’s so good that streamers keep playing it day-in day-out without being paid to do so

ninja sponsored BFV stream:

shroud:

basically, Apex did the same as all these other games, so ???

i dont even understand why u would argue this point:

this game is big cuz streamers kept playing it long past the sponsored segment and cuz it’s just so good, just like Fortnite, the sponsored segment in itself can not make a game a huge success in itself ever

Ninja played Heights too btw, and was sponsored for a bunch of other games too, where are they now?

Ninja played the culling, island of nyne, darwin project, fractured lands, realm royale, and a bunch of others too, where are they now???


#147

that’s the continued growth, apex literally blow up over night, more than Fortnite’s BR mode did
Again, they(cod, bfv, others) had marketing, pre launch, hype etc, aaand controversy, deck was already pretty stacked against BF(a bit CoD depending on which fence you lean on)
So there is pretty much only one way you can go from there, either you have them (at that point) or you go down, CoD might even have needed that marketing just to make the numbers they did given the usual drop off that popular game has every time.

Again, and this is very important, Apex had none, nothing. So when no one knows you exist, you are bound to fail (EA even kinda expected this) if none is aware of you. So when you have a blank slate, and “suddenly” the most popular people in the (gaming) world saying “check out this game” -it could be literal poop, and people would check it out. Sustainability is then up to the product itself, but those week 1 XX millions, 110% not a question the vast majority of those are because of those celebrities promoting the product, even just initially.
it doesn’t matter if a product is the best in the world, if 0 knows you are out there, you’re tumbleweeds rolling in the desert. And on the other hand you can be a poor product with great marketing, and thrive despite being poop.
(and in case of Radical heights you can’t really do much when you have “everything” against you)
People literally attribute the initial success of Apex to people like lirik and shroud, etc with apex taking over the twitch nr1 spot “right at the time”, -and some not even aware they were part of the promo team that took over twitch.
There is no denying that or why it was done, -or that it’s a pretty decent marketing strategy, and it clearly worked.
Sure liking the game (and continuing to play) helps… but it would have been an unknown ghost town in the middle of bumsville if they hadn’t gotten the word out, which they did, in such massive scale. -better than a primetime ad


#148

all these games had sponsored segments, only Apex blew up overnight

Apex is the only one that streamers are still playing every day a month later (just like Fortnite)

hence, the only thing that set it apart is its quality


#149

the others didn’t have a massive/the same type of concerted marketing effort
and you really think those games didn’t gain from those streams? initially?
again, if your product is shit you need better marketing to make something work against a better product, but even as a great product you still need “some” publicity, for people to even know you are there.
So when you have mediocre games, the marketing trick from someone like Ninja is definitely gonna help, initially, But if you don’t get him or X to keep supporting your product, it’s not gonna work on its own if you have something that is shit, and no longer the “digital messiah” to tell you it’s not sht like you think.

Apex was doa without that stream/twitch “takeover” in my mind, because they had no presence at all. They might have picked apex up eventually, gradually, on their own, but it would not have had the same effect.
Suppose the easiest example is Ninja himself, he was “no one” until is Drake stream, then suddenly he is the most viewed(not subbed) streamer, “over night” -because 1 “shoutout” -gets in the media, blows up even more. The “blow up”/“over night effect” is real. The bigger you are the more cloud you have, so when someone, Ninja, Lirik, shroud etc shows you something, paid promo or not, you bet it gets in someones head. And that it will boost your numbers.

Had Apex not been good, sure they probably wouldn’t have been able to maintain all XX millions past week 1. But it would also not have blown up like that/been dust in the wind without twitch promos 100%.
When a celebrity has a marked effect on paid games/things, there is no question they have a bigger reach on free stuff… But if the more awful your product is, the more glitter and sparkles you need tossed in your eyes to ignore its flaws. (people bought soulja’s console, it’s truly possible)
-guessing Nyne/fractured lands etc games were such turds they needed more polishing than a 4h stream could make them see past :man_shrugging:


#150

y i wont agree with u in that i feel all those games had the same sponsored coverage and the only real difference is in what the games have to offer, but fine


#151

Look out Pubg,Fortnite,and Apex Legends the G.O.A.T of battle royale games called Incursion is coming. :rofl:


#152

Here you go boys and girls another battle royale just for you. This time it’s a vehicle battle royale called notmycar.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/694720/notmycar/