Oh boy do we have a choice for you today. On one side, we have the wacky and whimsical world Uurnog Uurnlimited, filled with weird people and adorable animals. It’s colorful, silly, light-hearted, and fun. On the other, we have the dark and depressing world of Beholder 2, filled with bureaucracy, back stabbing, and Bolshevism. The two worlds couldn’t be more different, so now it’s time for you to make your choice.
Enter the wacky & whimsical world of Uurnog Uurnlimited! Explore a silly, puzzle-filled land full of cubes, bombs, weird people & adorable animals — then steal them all! Play single player or co-op as you jump, grab, throw & teleport your colorful collection back to the Save Room (and try not to destroy it).
You are a newly employed department officer within the Ministry of a totalitarian State. While you are poised to have an illustrious career and possibly become Prime Minister someday, the way up won’t be easy. So, how high up the career ladder will you climb? The choice is still yours to make!
I wonder what a dutch action style system would be like for Coin Shop games, where we would have 24 hours to bid how much we would each pay for a new shop game (like Beholder 2) and then everyone pays the lowest price of the quantity being sold…
example: 10 copies being given away by Chrono, so because it clearly sold out @ 20k lets say some gamers were willing to pay 50k, 45k, 41k, 37k, 35k, 35k, 25k, 25k, 25k, 24k (and many other bids, not in top 10). All 10 winners are “charged” 24k (minimum winning bid) and get a copy. Of course Chrono can still include a reserve price and choose whether that is visible to us, the gamers…meaning bidding could still start at 20k and a guaranteed amount of coins will be extracted from the Chronosphere wallets.
This has major benefits over the current system:
Slightly wider timeframe for people to check deal, and still fits in the Chrono theme of a 24-hour daily, giving a fair chance for all foreign and domestic gamers to check new Coin Shop games and place a bid – instead of selling out within 3 hours while 90% of us are still working, sleeping, or at school.
Popular or desired games command a market-dictated higher price, directly combating coin price inflation
Highest bidders aren’t punished for going “all in” with their coins, all pay lowest winning price, rest of bid returned to wallet.
Game prices auto-adjust based on interest for 24 hours, so high-demand games will still sell out in 24 hours at a higher price than reserve while lower interest games (I’m looking at you, Poop games) will default back to reserve if not enough bids within allotted time.
Thoughts? Prayers? Musings? What’s Chrono’s official position on a slight revamp? Related: I’d love to see average daily traffic to Chrono vs what percentage get the chance to glance at Coin Shop games before they sell out.
P.S. No, I’m not salty I missed Beholder 2…I wanted it, yes, but I know the rules. I’m just taking this opportunity to propose a better system because it can be frustrating to try to snag a quality game we actually want to play. I want to work with the devs on implementation, optimization, and tweaks because this community is awesome. And I’ve picked up some GREAT games from the Coin Shop, Seeds of Resilience and Reventure being the most recent and I played the crap out of both, thanks again @dusty !
great idea! They’d just have to make sure you can’t bid more than your total amount of coins on several games; in fact, I think that if they did it this way, they should also switch from 2 games every 2 weeks to 1 game every week, and I think they should keep the bidding going for the whole weekend instead of 24h, just to really give a maximum of ppl the opportunity to participate
This would definitely take care of several complaints many occasional visitors have made repeatedly.
This sounds like a solid project and generally looks pretty well. But if the system is ever to change in favor of any bidding, I’ll see myself out (or just stay for the forums and ignore everything that comes to coins). As for now, everything is simple and clear, and doesn’t require any actions that assosiate with internet auctions and/or gambling.
Also, the proposed system clearly puts in favor the people who are sitting on the biggest piles of coins, as they would be the ones who can make the higher bets (unless Chrono introduces some Chrono-minus coins count, Chrono-debt system or Chrono-loans). Ofc, when they get the games they want, they may not be the top coin holders anymore… but then the others who now have the most coins will be in favor, and so on…
And I don’t think that the active community that chats here on forums is responsible for clearing out the best games in like 1-3 hours after launch. There may be a lot of people who never come here, but get all the coins daily, manually or via some simple script, and have enough time \ set alarms at work-night, i dunno - to see all the offers immediately. I saw Beholder 93%-ed in the first few hours. I’m pretty sure that if there’s ever a bidding system, everybody here will just have a hard time competing with those silent, yet powerful 90% who WILL have lotsa coins and WILL show up altogether every time an awesome game gets to the shop, regardless of their work, night sleep, location, etc.
EDIT: All that said, I don’t argue that if there was any kind of way to help people get their most desired games, that would be nice. Even though I’m fine with how everything is now (and I missed most of the games I wanted bc I usually work at the time they’re dropped).
The day when i cannot buy coin shop games directly will be also the day when im not gonna bother with the whole coin aspect of the site anymore.
If I wanted to bid on stuff, i would go on an auction site or Ebay and frankly it wouldnt solve anything other than giving the impression of it. You would still have people complaining of missing out on highly anticipated games and demanding that the system gets tweaked in their favor, you just cannot please everyone in this scenario when it comes about free stuff.
I hate parroting myself but people need to finally understand that when you have lets say: 10k copies of the game with 30k people wanting to grab forementioned 10k copies, some will miss out, theres just no other way to put it. Not because they dont want to make it as fair as possible but because its physically impossible to please everyone.
Im not gonna pretend that my opinion is the only relevant on this topic and they are free to implement whatever changes they feel necessary.
Exactly this, but temporarily – as you already seem to be aware of, yes the first couple auctions would be dominated by those of us with big stockpiles, but the winners will dramaticallydeplete their resources after 1-2 games, thus driving down the prices again. This is the only way to deflate the system. As you are probably aware, there has been steady inflation of coin prices precisely because outflow < inflow. With an auction-like system, temporarily outflow > inflow until it reaches equilibrium, thus solving the more longterm problems.
I can go into more detail on economic structure and budget flow in a different post, but suffice to say you (as a gamer wanting more games) absolutely will benefit more from an auction system because once all the big hoarders burn an excess of coins to secure their first game, they are basically stuck with empty wallets for months even if they visit daily…especially since the daily “earn rate” of coins is the same for everyone.
Take a simple example: let’s say I sponsor 100 copies of Cyberpunk 2077 for the Coin Shop. Nearly every person that’s even heard of Chrono.gg would want that. So basically everyone bids 100% of their wallet. 50k coins, 60k coins, maybe even 100k coins. Crazy numbers. All the people show up, and ultimately who walks away with the win? Sure, the 100 richest wallets. But then how much do they have available for future bids? 2 weeks worth of coins, which I think is 700ish (14 days * 50 average/day), so now the richest are the poorest, and millions of coins were leeched out of the economic system.
Also, it would take years (literally) for these hoarders to rebuild their stockpiles if they paid 100k coins, versus being able to buy 5 games at 20k each. The next week, top bids might only be 50.7k, then 26.8k, then 15.5k and voila, we are already deflated below the 20k price within 3 rounds of Coin Shop games. In fact, equilibrium should be around 8587 coins, which is attainable in ~5.7months with daily logins. That seems quite nice and working as intended – check out 172 of our deals, maybe buy some, maybe not, and we’ll give you one coveted game you want, for free. Instead, due to inflation, Beholder 2 was 20k coins which is 400ish days, well over 13 months of waiting and deal checking. And the numbers keep rising! When we started, the most sought after game everyone was saving for, was 5000 coins for Brigador – imagine seeing a deal like that today, it would be sold out in 5 minutes, nearly everyone has 5000 saved up I’d bet, and Brigador is a great game to get essentially for free.
With our current system, the fastest fingers on Friday morning that ALSO has hoarded a ton of coins that ALSO wants the game, gets it. My goal is to create a more balanced system (that can adjust to more daily users, aka inflows) while also being more fair (allowing 24 hours gives everyone slightly higher chances). @lonin called it interesting, and it is because I’m looking to help provide a longterm solution that everyone enjoys. Yes, it will be different, but I’m willing to place my reputation on the line that within 4 iterations of the system, using highly sought-after games, games will forever be cheaper for us.
“What good is a fat Chrono wallet if nobody ever uses it?” The coins need to be circulating or they are doing nobody any good and it’s an inefficient system…and yes, highly recommend keeping a reserve price, so eventually we have something to save towards…imagine having a 20k sought-after game in the shop for weeks because everyone is desperately trying to save enough coins to buy it, because EVERYONE has a lower average balance…this provides Chrono.gg 2 more added bonuses: it provides the incentive to check new deals every day (the original intent of the coins/shop), and to buy games (for bonus coins).
As it stands, large wallets don’t help anyone because those incentives are now an after thought. Either we’re going to check the daily deal or we aren’t, but the added check-in coins don’t even come into the equation if you’re sitting on more than 2x the highest price game the Coin Shop has ever held. Love all the discussion though, keep it up!
Oh, another fun idea that could be “interesting” just allow us to buy and trade the game for coins, with a coin fee attached (that goes to Chrono.gg to help leech more coins from the system). Call it CoinFlip…?
Example: you finally saved up 20k and are excited and awake at 1700 UTC/9am PST for a Friday Shop update. But oh no! It’s Beholder 2, and you already bought it (or don’t want it)! However, to reward your fast fingers, you are allowed to purchase it and instantly relist it on Chrono.gg for 30k of someone else’s coins. No auction, just a set price for simplicity, and Chrono takes a decent chunk (tentatively 50% above original price, so 30k-20k=10k “profit”, 5k to you + original 20k, and 5k to Chrono to help pull additional coins out of the system).
What does a secondary resale market do, then?
This helps non-interested but speedy gamers build up a coin stash for future games they do want
It gives those actually interested in the game a second chance/more time to buy, albeit at a higher cost
It helps Chrono leech more coins out of wallets, in the longterm helping keep costs low(er)
There would have to be some simple rules to avoid abuse –
Keys cannot be looked at if gamer wants to resell (if looked at, count key as “activated” and ineligible for CoinFlip system)
Keys default back to buyer after CoinFlip time limit reached (say 24 hours) if no 2nd buyer – makes speedy gamers assume some of the risk/reward of buying early with only intent to profit instead of play; that way the risk of the game not selling out balances out potential profit so all games aren’t instantly bought and resold for a higher price. Original intent should remain for a buyer to buy a Coin Shop game for the purposes of playing it.
Max/min price limits based on original cost of game – this helps prevent people scamming the system. Maybe 50% to 1000%, so take Beholder 2 20k as the example, 10k-200k (so at 10k a friend can help subsidize the cost of a game for someone else that doesn’t quite have the full price in coins, albeit the giftgiver is shouldering the costs of the other half only reason I suggest the less than 100% limit)
Remove 1 copy/player limits – this ensures faster attainment of equilibrium prices as more and more Chrono fees are collected on resales, and even if 1 person is doing all the reselling, they are the one assuming all the additional risk of suddenly owning 300 games of There’s Poop in My Soup (which they can just give away on SteamGifts or forums or something, not a total loss, but now all those keys are guaranteed “sold” and that person’s wallet is drained).
Add a leaderboard for Walletsize…partially so players can “oo” and “ah”, but also because there’s always a couple people that are going to care more about the Walletsize than spending coins, thus leaving more games to the rest of us since their entire goal will be to maximize resell price by getting the game into the hands of someone that really wants to play it, thus all their coins will be to fuel the constant churn of games going from Shop -> Flip, effectively eliminating their wallet from competition against actual purchasers since they won’t want to lose their rank (and yay, the stockpilers get to show off, woo!).
Ultimately, a system like that puts the burden of finding market equilibrium on the resellers, instead of Chrono.gg constantly raising prices and finding out that 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k still wasn’t enough. Right now, my guess is Chrono.gg could set the price to 100k for something like a Dead Cells/Beholder 2/Cuphead-quality game and it would still sell out. Or, even better, it doesn’t sell out immediately and gives hoarders a goal/reason to visit everyday. Personally, I know that would motivate me! I still love the system, but prices need to raised in the shortterm to deal with the ever-bloating Coinconomy they’ve created.
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT: Another idea, lets call it CoinDiscount, we start the price exorbitantly high, say Top 1% of WalletSize, and slowly drop it down 5%/day to a flat 20k after 2 weeks…simple, effective, predictable, and fair. Example: 90k day 1, 85k day 2, 80k day 3…20k day 14. People can risk the game selling out to get it slightly cheaper the next day, or lock it in guaranteed early for a higher price. Win-win, another way to achieve equilibrium as most players won’t risk waiting 2 weeks for the cheapest 20k price, some will gamble for cheaper and wait a couple days, and others won’t care and just pay the highest price because they finally get a game they want. Major perk: super easy to implement for Chrono devs, we’ve already seen them program in Coin Shop discounts when they were trying to get rid of a bunch of lower quality games that had started to linger.
@lonin so far, which of the 3 ideas appeals most to you? Merits/drawbacks? Initial impressions? CoinDutch, CoinFlip, CoinDiscount – or mix/match.
P.S. I’m not reinventing the wheel here, nor do I claim any of these ideas being wholly original. I’m just trying to take lessons learned from 300+ years of economics and pair it with the original intent of the Coin Shop which is to drive internet traffic (and sales) here at Chrono.gg as a free/lowcost attraction and retention tool. I always want what’s best for Chrono.gg and I view coin inflation as slowly degrading the very cool tool they implemented (the Coin Shop) because it can seem very defeating to a newbie visiting Chrono for the first time, spinning the wheel, getting their first 25 coins, then looking to see what they can spend them on, running the math, and realizing they need to visit the site for years before they can afford some of the games. I want traffic to stick. I want gamers to check daily. I want people to chat in the forums. I want more Chrono-buddies. That is why I want a slightly revamped Coin Shop!
P.P.S. Another fix would be to have MANY (read 10-20x) more copies of the next 20k game to sell in the Coin Shop, but I assume the Chrono guys are buying the games themselves to giveaway to us or they are begging/haggling keys off devs meaning the devs of great games aren’t getting paid, either way I don’t think more keys is sustainable, nor should it be. They acquire a limited amount of keys to give to us and we are forever grateful, but since quantity is limited then the price is the only factor we can adjust to find proper equilibrium.